The Mets said farewell to the House of Horrors known as Turner Field with a 10-3 victory Sunday afternoon. The Mets finished 67-106 lifetime in the soon to be vacated stadium.
- The Mets jumped on top early. Asdrubal Cabrera tripled with one out in the first and scored on an infield groundout by Yoenis Cespedes. Two innings later, Cespedes hit a grand slam homer and the rout was on.
- Seth Lugo hurled his fourth Quality Start in five games. He completed seven innings and lowered his ERA to 2.40 in the majors. If the Mets make the playoffs and advance past the Wild Card game, Lugo is making a push to be one of the team’s four starters. This was the first poor team he’s faced, as previously he started against the Giants, Cardinals, Marlins and Nats.
- James Loney broke out his extra-base hit bat, as he hit a solo homer and an RBI double. Loney also started the game-ending double play in the ninth inning.
- This was the sixth straight series win for the Mets. It was also their seventh win in Atlanta this year, their most ever in the history of Turner Field.
Another series win! The Mets moved ahead of the Cards! It feels good that they buried the Braves and The Ted with a 10-3 win. Ce$ is earning his salary. Can the Mets get a series win against the Nats? Difficult , but they may do it.
Tomorrow brings another test for the enigmatic Mr. Montero.
A very stiff test against the Divsion leaders in their own house.
It would be a good time to show us something.
Sometimes I wonder if pitching in Vegas did a number on him . . . that his confidence may recover someday . . . but that it’s not going to happen in a Mets uniform.
Other times I think he simply just doesn’t have what it takes.
All I know is that I don’t know.
Actually Jimmy, his problems didn’t start in Vegas. He was doing quite well there when he first got there. Then he was brought up for a spot start in 2014 in the subway series as the #1 pitching prospect and deGrom also came up to fill in the bullpen since there were a few injuries. However, deGrom got pressed into a start as well.
Montero struggled with the long ball and then started nibbling. He was sent back down, did ok and they tried again later. Similar results. Then came his shoulder injury in spring 2015.
If the Mets have a logjam in the 40 man in November, Montero and Verrett may be sent off to Anaheim for some international free agent signing cap space.
I am aware of Montero’s history.
Matt Bowman spoke specifically about Montero in that article I posted a a few days ago, speculating that extensive time in Vegas can wear on a pitchers confidence. Too much time in that environment might be a negative. Additionally, it could lead to over-throwing.
Again, to some this is a dead horse, but I see Vegas as a massive failure. I don’t accept that the organization is helpless to act for six seasons and counting. As a facility — no indoor batting cages, horrible weight room, terrible playing surface, and on and on — the dugout is literally a s***hole, according to Wally Bachman — it is widely recognized as the worst in AAA. If a team wants to run a first-class minor league operation, that’s not how it’s done.
When Montero came up for the second time in 2014, it was absolutely not more of the same. His K’s were up, his HR were down and his ERA was down. Now, you can dismiss this for a number of reasons. But it is erroneous to say it was more of the same.
He pitched great in Spring Training in 2015 but the team opted to stay with Gee. He did horrible in relief, got sent down and hurt his shoulder.
The criticisms of his slider and pitching on one plain are valid. He’s going to have to throw his changeup more and he’s going to have to pitch in and out and up and down. The Mets – whether the catcher or the dugout – continually call for the ball low and away on nearly every pitch. My opinion is that is a recipe for disaster.
The encouraging thing in the first start this year, despite all the walks, was that Montero was shaking off pitches. Perhaps he did that in the second start, too, but I didn’t see it.
He was crucified in that relief outing last year for throwing 10 pitches in a row in the exact same location. It was a microcosm of what they call for him in an entire game.
Hopefully he has enough experience now to say no, to shake off that pitch. Because ultimately he’s the one who has to live with the results.
I agreed when you said that it’s time for Conforto to look in the mirror.
I disagree when you continually discuss Montero in terms of blaming the catcher, the bench, the pitching coach, as if they are all conspiring against him.
Forget about blame for now. Humor me and answer these questions:
1. Do you see him throwing the same pitch in the same location again and again and again?
2. Do you think this is the way to successfully pitch in the majors?
Hey, I agree that the fastball is too straight and the slider doesn’t move enough. But my opinion is that the way to combat this is not to attempt to throw 95% of your pitches low and away.
Lugo’s fastball isn’t any better. But he can change hitter’s eye level with his curve. Montero doesn’t have that curve. He’s got to move the ball around more than he does to have success. He doesn’t have to abandon low and away. That’s probably where the majority of his pitches should be. But can he target that area 65% of the time rather than 95%?
I see your point, and share your frustration.
But Lugo has the same catcher, pitching coach, organization, dugout, etc.
What’s different?
Like I said in the last post, Lugo has a curve that operates on a different plane. Montero doesn’t have that. He’s got to create a different plane with location.
The thing is that location can be overcome. Montero suffers from a complete lack of late movement in the zone. He can get away with location-only approach against minor leaguers perhaps, but that doesnt fly in the Show. He is overmatched from from the first pitch, and batters need to know out and up or out and down. That wont get it done as we have seen. Im quite frankly shocked he’s still in the Mets system.
Well, no one was going to trade for him coming off all the missed time with the shoulder injury last year. And despite whatever you may think about him, he was too valuable to just cut. It may be a surprise if he’s still in the org on Opening Day 2017 but it wasn’t a shock at any time this current year.
You’re acting like there’s only one way to have success and I don’t think that’s the case at all. Can Montero succeed with his stuff going up, down, in and out? At this point no one knows. All we can say for sure is that he’s not going to crack the Mets’ rotation pitching the way he has been and he’s been a dismal failure in the bullpen. Something’s got to give. Either he pitches differently or he’s in another organization.
He’s got to use his changeup more and hope it can be a pitch to feature against LHB, who are just killing him.
Im betting this was the last time we see Montero as a Met. Id take him off the 40 man and just let him walk.
Lugo is maxing at 96. He’s doing alot of other things as well….nice 2 seemer, varied location. He has the foundation of secondary pitches.
Gsellman and Lugo are execution/command away from 150 start careers, or better. They have an assortment to attack MLB hitters…Montero does not.
I think you’re overrating Lugo. He’s been tremendous for the team but he’s pitching way over his peripherals. Would you be this enthusiastic about him if he had a 4.27 ERA instead of a 2.40 one? He’s been very fortunate with his BABIP, strand rate and HR rate. That’s a lot of good fortune to expect to continue.
I’m not over rating him…I’m making a statement only about his stuff. He has lacked consistent location and been very lucky.
As for the 4.27 ERA….if you’re identifying that as his starting point (FIP?), then it reinforces my observation. The stuff says he can improve.
Brian, I agree that he outpitched Gee in spring training. But, I did the analysis off memory so I couldn’t remember much improvement.
Hopefully, Rivera catches him tonight as he needs strong guidance and leadership behind the plate. [Isn’t it beautiful to have strong leadership behind the plate? How was this guy available on the scrap heap?] Also, Montero needs to bust them in on the hands a bit more so he can go back outside corner.
JP – I rarely comment here, but I was thinking about this Vegas thing the other day. With some exceptions, it’s been amazing how successful the pitching call ups have done in the MLs in the last few years. Is there a method to this madness? Craziness? What better pitching environment to develop a “trust your stuff” mentality? What I see is pretty confident young arms coming out of a meat grinder.
Just a thought. I’d love to get Viola’s thoughts on this.
As far as it being a sh-thole, that’s another thing.
That’s a good point, IB.
Someone asked a few days back, in defense of Vegas, who has it ruined? I can’t answer that, but neither do I think it’s the salient question.
Some great pitchers have moved through there — and worked with Viola — fairly quickly, which I suspect is key. They haven’t been ruined in any way at all. Unless they felt a need to over-throw their breaking pitches, leading potentially to long-term injury? I can’t even speculate on such a thing. I kind of doubt that Montero would be well-served by throwing another year there. And I also doubt that Lugo would be well-served to throw another year there, though now with MLB success he’d at least have that to help fend off those deep doubts. Getting crushed on a regular basis can’t be good. Just as swatting HRs against inferior curveballs isn’t going to make you a better hitter. Or is it? I can’t say with certainty.
Very simply — substandard facilities aside, ignoring the player complaints, the literal s**t in the dugout — I’m not a believer in extreme ballparks.
There’s really nothing to like about Vegas. The only issue is how bad is it, how much of a difference does it make? Maybe nothing matters! One thing is for sure: It’s not first-class. It’s not even second-class.
But kids grow up dirt-poor in San Pedro de Macoris and become HOF shortstops. Talent will overcome many obstacles. And maybe there’s value in erecting obstacles for talented players, I don’t know. I believe the Mets and their players would be better served elsewhere. They blew their relationship in Buffalo. Blew their relationship in Norfolk. I wish it were not so.
Here at 360, back in 2012, folks were cheering “Viva Las Vegas!” I didn’t agree then, and don’t agree now. Doesn’t make me right!
Most of the Pitching Success is about calling up Ultra Top Shelf Talent! Harvey, Wheeler, Sydergaard had major prospect cred—and elite stuff!
The AAA tour is a completion phase—you cannot execute/add/hone breaking pitches at Vegas.
He doesn’t have the stuff/mix…and he knows it. That’s why he’s nibbling. Curiously, he hasn’t added a thing to his pitching weapons. He is missing everything that he was missing 3 years ago.
I don’t think he can “step up”…he can get a little lucky, that’s all.
BTW, I think Eraff’s “and he knows it” is especially germane. That’s my sense, too. He pitches with fear. Maybe he learned it in Vegas? Maybe he can unlearn it here.
Or maybe he’s right to be afraid.
Back when he was considered a hot prospect word was that while didn’t have the velocity of Harvey and Wheeler, he had impeccable control. What the heck happened? He does have nice natural movement on his fastball, but if he can’t throw strikes what does it matter?
I don’t see any movement on his FB at all.
He can still hit the low and away corner to perfection, but that’s not enough against ML hitters. He does not appear to have a willingness to go inside. Perhaps that’s wise. Or just a negative lesson taught in Vegas that he has to unlearn.
I think the slider doesn’t slide enough.
The change up is a good pitch.
I don’t think he has much movement. He also is not working with any favorable Geometry. His entire attack is on a very flat plane. His mix and his attack do nothing to threaten a hitter. He’s gonna get killed….or maybe he’s gonna be lucky.
+1
+1
No movement at all, up/down or side/side
Is Montero a Rule 5 for next year? It would be a shame to lose him…I hunch there’s a good pitcher to be made of him. Add a sinker…a split????— get enough courage to Pitch to MLB hitters.
I saw him pitch on the same day as deGrom as Rookies in Spring Training. deGrom stole that day, but Montero was impressive. Pitch it—get it back—pitch it again. He’s been stripped of confidence because he knows he has a tight window on making his stuff work. Knowing that, he hasn’t added much in almost 3 years. It doesn’t make sense.
He may need Other Voices…or he may need to listen.
He’s already on the 40-man roster. Rule 5 doesn’t really apply, unless they decide to remove him to make room for someone else.
Becerra, Molina and Rosario are the big names that need to be added this year.
No one took Becerra last year, and it would boggle my mind if someone took Becerra in the rule 5 this year, unless he could be taken in the minor league portion of the rule 5 draft (whose rules i’m not too sure of)