Gut Reaction: Marlins 5, Mets 4 (4/15/17)

The old wisdom is that you’re going to win 1/3 of your games no matter what and you’re going to lose 1/3 no matter what. It’s what you do with the other 1/3 that determines what kind of year you’re going to have. The Mets lost one of the games from the third category Saturday night, losing 5-4 to the Marlins in a game they held a 4-2 lead in the eighth inning.

Brian Joura (admin)

I want them to send JDG out for the 8th but they won’t

It’s easy to second guess but this was a first guess from the Game Chatter. Jacob deGrom was absolutely cruising. He retired the last six batters he faced, the final four going down with strikeouts. His pitch count was at 97 and undoubtedly that was the reason they took him out.

About 99 times out of 100 this is the correct decision. But this time was the exception. The Mets’ bullpen still was overworked. Terry Collins had no problem giving his catcher back-to-back days off after he caught 16 innings but went to the whip when it came to his relievers.

Fernando Salas was asked to pitch for the eighth time in 12 games and after retiring the first two batters, he allowed a walk and then back-to-back homers.

The Mets snagged defeat from the jaws of victory in this one.

8 comments for “Gut Reaction: Marlins 5, Mets 4 (4/15/17)

  1. NormE
    April 15, 2017 at 10:56 pm

    The inconsistency in Collins’ decision extends to his failure to have Blevins ready to pitch to Yelich. A terrible loss.

  2. TexasGusCC
    April 16, 2017 at 4:20 am

    Happy Easter everyone.

    DeGrom is the new Harvey: No run support.

    Looking at the Mets pitching stats through 12 games, there’s a problem:
    – The obvious is the top three starters going only 6 innings per start while the back two are no more than five. This taxes the bullpen.
    – The secondary problem is the ineffectiveness of pretty much half the bullpen, making the other half work harder and This taxes the effective relievers even more.
    – And lastly is a glitch in the usage pattern and availability. Blevins has been in 8 games, tied for the lead with Salas, but only has 4.2 innings pitched; the least amount on the whole team. Everyone else has about an inning per game played. Further Gilmartin was brought up when he wasn’t ready to pitch much. The second time in two years this happened.

    Losing Matz, Lugo and Familia at the same time made the heavy lifters work harder, especially with Montero, Smoker, Edgin and Robles being unreliable. Too, Ricky Knapp was protected from Rule 5 for just this purpose, but he also got hurt.

    This is beyond ridiculous and it’s about time there is some kind of search into why this team has this many pitching injuries year after year. Do they need a kinesiologist? The Mariners used one a few years ago and had very few injuries that year. Is it babying them all the time? Nolan Ryan has said many times throw more, not less to build up arm strength. I believe that once is an accident, twice is a hint of problems and more than that is pattern. All teams have injuries, but the Mets never have full health and always seem to be several pitchers down at once.

    What other pitchers were burned through at the WBC?

  3. Metsens
    April 16, 2017 at 7:16 am

    A gut wrenching loss.
    Pitch counts should be used as a decision making tool not as a mandate. The pitching coach and manager should use their knowledge, wisdom and eyesight to determine when to take a pitcher out. deGrom had just struck out the last four batters. On April 22, 1970, Seaver pitched a two-hitter against the Padres for a 2-1 win. He fanned 19 of the 31 batters he faced, including the last 10 in a row.
    NormE above makes a valid point that Blevins could have been ready after the four pitch walk but that really is the issue about stressing the bullpen. The Mets have four strong one inning pitchers when Familia comes back. NL starters average six innings a game. The Mets starters are very capable to get near to a seven inning average. Blevins is very capable of going more than one batter. Blevins should be pitching full innings. Salas is also capable of pitching full innings but last night, because of overuse, he ran out of gas.

    “I don’t know how many times we have to say that right now, we have made a commitment to take care of these guys, make sure we don’t overdo them. When we blow a save, it’s easy to second-guess that we could have run Jake out there. We have three pitchers that are coming off surgery. Now, if Jake goes out there and he gets in trouble, the immediate thing is, ‘Why didn’t you take him out?’ Right? That’s the next question. I want to protect these guys.”
    — Mets manager Terry Collins on his decision to remove deGrom after seven innings

  4. Eraff
    April 16, 2017 at 7:21 am

    Pitch Counts and Pitcher injuries are a fact of life, and we’re simply not paying attention if we conclude that the Mets have a greatly different approach or results from this reality versus other teams.

    Teams protect Key starter arms, and burn bullpens— pitching Salas for the zillionth time may cook him, but the idea is that youre saving deGrom.

    Part of the problem is the absence of JF…added to that, they have at least one Fire Starter in Montero— if I’m the Manager and I’m begging for something to work, I’m going to Salas just like Terry did.

    In October, I expect deGrom to come out for the 8th. They have established an approach for the early season, and it includes pitch counts. Again, like it or not….

    • Metsense
      April 16, 2017 at 7:44 am

      Pitch counts and “effectiveness beyond the pitchers pitch count” are more the fact of life. Pitching injuries are caused by fatigue. If there is no sign of fatigue then there is no issue. Also, one size does not fit all. If deGrom was fatigued, there would be a reason to pull him. If deGrom’s history indicated at what pitch count he becomes less effective then he should he closely monitored at that point.
      If a manager can’t determine what is happening in front of him, then put a PC instead of a TC in the dugout and have the computer make the decisions and save the manager’s salary.
      Eraff, of course you are correct that this is how baseball is in 2017, and I don’t like it because the manager is not accountable.

      • Jimmy P
        April 16, 2017 at 10:49 am

        Well, that’s harsh. Seems like there has been an organizational decision to go the extra yard in keeping the starting rotation healthy.

        Remember how gassed Jake was at the end of 2015. And how he was hurt by the end of 2016. It’s not crazy to play it safe in the middle of April in 2017. With a two-run lead in the 8th inning.

        It didn’t work out. And maybe it was the wrong call. We won’t ever know the answer to that. But again, I see this as a defensible decision, the perimeters of which were outlined over the winter and during spring training by the collective brain trust of the NY Mets.

  5. Jimmy P
    April 16, 2017 at 7:58 am

    The real problem here is that we’re not in Philadelphia anymore. These Marlins are good, have some great players, and a strong bullpen.

    Other issues:

    * Pulling deGrom was debateable, I personally was hoping they’d try to get one or two more outs from him — it was a three out challenge at that point, with Reed ready for the 9th — but I respect the decision in April for a post-surgery pitcher. A valid decision; not a “mistake.” At least that the distinction I make.

    * Blevins should have pitched to Yelich, but I respect the decision to 1) “try” to keep him out of the game altogether; and 2) the concern of a Stanton/Blevins matchup if Yelich gets on.

    * The handicap is that the Mets bullpen, as I’ve maintained all along, is simply not that good. Because after Reed, Blevins, and Salas, no one is particularly trustworthy. I still like Robles. And Smoker, I think, maybe. But no way last night could TC has gone to Montero, Gilmartin (who pitched himself out of baseball last year and this Spring) or Edgin. Last and close, they just don’t belong in a game.

    * It gets better when Familia returns. Then we lose one useless guy.

    * Even so, I believe more than ever that this pen is short one quality arm.

    Rough loss.

    He, Neil Walker. Nice bunt, fortunate double, but that last AB? For $17 million? Not good. Be good for you to join the party.

    And, ah, Juan Lagares catching a baseball. It just looks qualitatively different.

  6. Chris F
    April 16, 2017 at 9:36 am

    Sure glad I missed this game. Im exhausted by the Marlins.

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