Mets fan wonders if a team with four stars should rebuild

It’s July and the Mets are in last place. Anyone who said they saw that coming at the start of the season is full of it. But regardless of the insanity of it all, now’s the time to deal with the reality of the situation. And last place teams in July better be rebuilding or starting that process. The Mets, one of the most active teams in free agency heading into the year, were not already rebuilding. But 99 percent of the fan base is ready to trade anything and everything that’s not already nailed to the floor.

So, this is what it’s like to be in the 1% – funny, it’s a lot different than my expectations.

It makes complete sense to want to distance yourself as far as possible from the dumpster fire of 2018 and there’s no better way to achieve that than getting rid of everyone involved. But at the same time, you can’t let emotions dictate your decision-making process. You don’t blame your best guys when you don’t win and you don’t necessarily trade them, either.

The Mets have four players on their roster with a legitimate shot to amass 5.0 fWAR or greater in 2019. Jacob deGrom, Noah Syndergaard, Michael Conforto and Brandon Nimmo. Three of those guys are 25 right now and the other just turned 30 a dozen days ago. Syndergaard and deGrom have already posted years with a fWAR that high, Conforto put up a 4.3 mark last season in 440 PA and Nimmo currently has a 2.6 mark in 252 PA this year.

How many players on the 2017 World Series champion Houston Astros had a 5.0 or better fWAR last year? There were only two. Now, they didn’t have Justin Verlander for the entire year and they still had nine guys post a 3.0 or better fWAR. They were an excellent team and are well-positioned to be an excellent team for years to come.

Do the Mets have a better chance to be that way by trading off the guys who are stars now and hoping they can hit on the prospects that they get in return? Or do they have a better chance of assembling a team with nine above average guys or better by holding on to the four guys they already have and making better additions around them?

The Mets likely thought they had four of these guys heading into 2018 but they would have counted Yoenis Cespedes rather than Nimmo. Perhaps they even thought they had five of these guys, as Asdrubal Cabrera was just one year removed from a 3.5 fWAR season. Then they added Jay Bruce and Todd Frazier – two guys who consistently put up 3-WAR seasons. It was a plan that put them right on the edge of where they needed to be.

Of course the plan didn’t work.

Cespedes’ leg injuries were worse than we feared, Syndergaard’s lat injury did not return but he came up with a completely unexpected finger injury and Bruce and Frazier – two guys noted for their durability – both landed on the DL. It’s unfortunate that four guys who were counted on to be cornerstones all got hurt and missed significant time in the same season. Because it’s a whole lot easier to amass above average numbers when you play 150 games.

So the rational thing to do is assess how likely the team is to receive health and production from their current players going forward. Sure, put Cespedes in the lottery column. But where do you put Syndergaard or Frazier? Is there a good reason to believe that Syndergaard will turn into the Tin Man and come up with a different injury every year? Is there a good reason to think that Frazier, who averaged 3.5 fWAR the previous five seasons, will perform this way again? And you can put Bruce in this category, too.

Regardless of which way you come down after the rational assessment, you still want to listen to trade offers for all of your players. All it takes is one team being willing to overpay for an asset and however unlikely that may be, it costs nothing to listen

And if the rational assessment says you should go the rebuilding route, it doesn’t mean that you have to trade your big stars by the end of the month. Maybe the best offer comes on July 31. But maybe it comes in November. You’ve got to know what the value is and don’t sell for pennies on the dollar.

Everyone points to the Astros and Cubs as teams that sold off their players, went through down times and then came out on top. That’s absolutely a potential outcome. The problem is that it’s not the only one.

The Reds made the playoffs three times in four years, sold off what they could and are looking at their fifth straight losing season with no end in sight. The White Sox, after a few years of treading water, sold off their stars and are looking at their first 100-loss season since 1970 and there’s no telling when it will get better. And their deals when they sold off their stars were universally praised. The Tigers made the playoffs four straight years and then sold off their veterans. They lost 98 games last year and might challenge that mark again this year and face an uncertain future.

You sell off your stars and rebuild, you guarantee yourself 95+ loss seasons. Which is fine if you deliver playoff appearances and a World Championship. Astros and Cubs fans will tell you it’s worth it. Fans of other franchises might tell you something else entirely. If you’re a Mets fan pushing to blow things up, remember that there are no assurances that big winning will follow all of the guaranteed losing. You better believe in your GM. And the Mets have three of those right now.

In football, they say if you have two starting quarterbacks, you don’t have one. Does that apply towards baseball GMs, too? Either way – better hold on tight because it’s going to be a bumpy ride.

33 comments for “Mets fan wonders if a team with four stars should rebuild

  1. Steve S.
    July 1, 2018 at 10:39 am

    I doubt that that many Mets fans want to “blow up” the team. Many just want to deal the obvious players: Familia, Blevins, Reyes (if you can), and Cabrera. Then bring up McNeil and Alonso this year, and really (this time!) beef up the bullpen.

    Not to mention that Matz and Wheeler seemed to have turned the corner!

    • Chris F
      July 1, 2018 at 11:21 am

      I call this the Alderson status quo approach. This team, save injuries, is a 90 win team. A couple tweaks, and there is a great core. Unfortunately, we see year after year, this is a complete failure. We are doing that this very second. The team loses 2x more than it wins behind a legitimate ace in deGrom. Lets trade the guys that are pending FAs and the otherwise underperforming. Well Familia, Blevins, Reyes, Bruce, Bautista, Droobs, and Ces (if he would agree) arent gonna get back more than low level prospects, leaving the team no better than what happened last year. McNeil and Alonso as saviors? Not a chance. For a team that lacks talent and desire baind-aids do nothing.

      We also have the other end member, the complete Astros/White Sox style tear down. This says sell everything, except for 1 franchise piece (or not). Could easily end up a years long 90+ loss seasons. Shrewd trades focus on restocking the farm from A ball on up. Its a slow process, and can take quite a few years. The best thing is that the pipeline gets filled up and you hope that a few stars pop out.

      There is another option. Its a significant rebuild, but uses the highest grade talent to get near major league ready and 1st year pros as the cornerstone trade chips, and using the lower grade assets to add to the lower rank minor leagues with fewer good picks or a larger group of good upside but raw or hopeful talent. The front part of that plan brings quality players at needed positions with the hope of shortening the time to being good.

      We have a real issue of a team in disequilibrium. At this point, we could have 5 deGroms but the results would be little different. The remainder of players are old, slow, rely on power only, and have little instinct. Yes it seems aweful to “waste” front line pitching, but in the absence of anything around it, it is even more wasted. Look at Jake today after this run of absolutely abyssmal baseball (or what ever brand of sport Alderson had them playing). Without a decent team that can hit for average and power, that can field substantially better than the sub “de minimis” level Alderson preferred, that can run the bases, and that play players where they are best suited the team is DOA. So it is as we see every day.

      I dont care about losing during a rebuild. I live near Atlanta. It was a bit rough in the past few years, but the thought of Acuna and Albies and Swaanson coming up, the return for Shelby Miller, Freeman being on a rampage forever kept up the spirits…and here they are. No one is talking about the rebuild. I personall abhor the though of finishing +/- .500 every year with some BS “hope” and bellicose yelling about “were a 90+ win team” only to be served a plate of crap. Id rather be the 62 Mets for a spell and then be legit contenders.

      • Steve S.
        July 1, 2018 at 11:50 am

        Well, the Miami Marlins traded high-grade talent and I’m not optimistic about their future with the prospects they got back.

        On the other hand, a team of Alonso, McNeil, Rosario, Frazier, Conforto, Nimmo, Cespedes, d’Arnaud/Mesoraco, and most of the starting pitchers, with a great bullpen could make the playoffs.

        I’m thinking that Bruce and/or Frazier will rebound.

        • Chris F
          July 1, 2018 at 12:12 pm

          1. We have zero reason to expect Alonso and McNeil will be stars in the big leagues. We have little reason to expect they will even be passable every day players. To wit: Dom Smith. Amed Rosario. (just to start).

          2. Frazier is on the tail end of his career and contract, and the worst offensive player on a team of terrible hitters.

          3. Ces. Honestly. 50 games? Might as well put D Wright on your list.

          4. Neither TdA nor Mesoraco are every day catchers. Mesoracois a FA and TdA is recovering from season ending surgery. No reason to imagine either will be o the team or valuable next year.

          5. The SP has been good, but the fisrt part of the season starters were brutal, going 5 innings, and putting severe stress on the pen.

          6. A great bull pen? Of all the things that are so mercurial, pens are at the top. Just what players are going there? Right now, this is the worst pen in baseball.

          • AJV
            July 1, 2018 at 4:45 pm

            Literally your first point can be made about any prospect anywhere. Not a fair point to even push.

            • Chris F
              July 1, 2018 at 5:19 pm

              i was responding to the previous message, which said:

              “On the other hand, a team of Alonso, McNeil, Rosario, Frazier, Conforto, Nimmo, Cespedes, d’Arnaud/Mesoraco, and most of the starting pitchers, with a great bullpen could make the playoffs.”

  2. Pete from NJ
    July 1, 2018 at 10:54 am

    The real dilemma is the long term contracts of: Cespedes, Bruce and Frazier. Is 2019 a comeback year or are they on a total downward digression? The offense needed their production this year and the organization is married with them for next year.

    The bullpen of course needs to be rebuilt but that’s a given just because of the free agent years of the heart of this year’s group.

    It’s just too complex to plan right now in the middle of our grieving period.

    • July 1, 2018 at 11:17 am

      Frazier is signed to a two year deal for cheap he’s emintely moveable

  3. July 1, 2018 at 11:14 am

    Reminds me of Omar’s Mets three megastars in Wright, Reyes and Beltran and surrounded by scrubs and the stars got blamed. The scrubs is why the 07-08 teams collapsed.

  4. Madman
    July 1, 2018 at 11:18 am

    This is a 95 loss team if they don’t sell off their stars! And if you look at their farm system and the success rate of FAs there is reason to think this is a 95 loss team next season.

  5. Chris F
    July 1, 2018 at 12:02 pm

    “Mets fan wonders how can a team with four stars, and a 90+ loss record, not rebuild”

    This the exact type of thought provoking piece we will need. Thanks for putting this together. I think the title gives us the serious hard look perspective we need to appreciate. Going forward is going to hurt and be costly one way or another.

    My title sees it a little different. We are playing with these four stars, and I dont see much happening. But a couple other things come to mind. One, none of these players are at premium positions. Two corner outfielders does not a team make. Two, I think its reasonable to express caution with calling Nimmo a star. Hes got a month of star-like production, but the data are still coming in. We’ve seen plenty of folks not be able to make adjustments and go from sizzle to fizzle. Im not saying that will happen, but stars are special and demonstrate it time and again. Three, Im not swayed that building around starting pitching and “filling gaps” (ya know, the rest of the field) is a track record of success. In short, that very Aldersonian approach relies back on the wildly misguided plan of “true outcomes” baseball (I just threw up in my mouth even writing that) — that players out in the field are static chess pieces that swing bats. But no team that wins a world series or is a serious competitor can do that. Competitive teams need talents players *everywhere* on the field and stars, even superstars, at premium positions in the field: catcher, SS, 2B, CF. Just having 2 awesome front line starters will not guarantee wins. A pitcher is 1 guy on the field, and while involved in every play, surrenders the out come of most to teammates. They play infrequently. Four, by the time the team can get quality position players, the starting pitchers will be gone. Both deGrom and Syndergaard will leave for FA before a half-baked “reboot” could have success. 2018 is gone. 2019 is gone. that leaves one year of deGrom.

    So I dont really see a core of outrageous talent that gaps can be plugged. And I see a couple players whose trade value exceeds whatever they can bring to the team, especially if the return is at positions the team is desperate to have and otherwise has little hope to acquire. There are no guarantees.

    • Chris F
      July 1, 2018 at 12:53 pm

      5. Look at the NL east. Both the Phillies and braves are well ahead of us, and built to win for some time…now is the time to get ahead of the Nats and hope a rebuild is better than the Marlins, whose outcome is still down the road.

  6. July 1, 2018 at 12:34 pm

    Bad team built poorly from the ground up. Bad farm system, team on the field is old and stinks, losing mentality, and the problem is spreading to the players that walked in the door with a smile on their faces so that they will learn how to lose too…or at least accept it and shrug. Rosario is a bad version of Jose Reyes and I don’t think we’ll ever see him turn out to be a good player, Smith is a grade C prospect, Comforto is lost, Cespedes is collecting disabilty checks and probably perfectly content to get paid millions to sit on his ass, Bruce is a slow slugger who can ‘t do anything but hit HR’s and he’s got 3 of them. Catching is a weak spot, bullpen is a disaster, players come up with poor fundamentals and can’t bunt or execute routine plays. Just dreadful all around. Time to gut the team completely, sell off what you can and build from the ground up. Will take some time but look at how fast the Braves turned around….it can be done. Alderson created a mess and then left and you need a whole new mindset now. Start from scratch. This team is toast.

  7. Dean
    July 1, 2018 at 12:40 pm

    Yes, this is another frustrating summer for us Met fans as we hoped for much better this year. Sandy putting this team together with little to no regard for defense, hitters with all or nothing approach and a lack of athletes was frustrating for most of us this past off season. The hope was for the starting pitching and solid bullpen would lead us to a competitive team that might get to 90 wins and a wild card birth, we were wrong.
    The season started great, but there were questions about MC use of the bullpen and some questionable decisions at the time but everything was working. The 11-1 start was a mirage, bullpen wore out and all of Mickeys calls that worked early failed to work as the offense just seemed to disappear. Now do we tear it apart and start over?
    I think we have some young players that should not be moved unless we no doubt win that trade. The question to me should really be about deGrom, as he is 30 and probably will never be worth more. We need to get at least 2 top prospects, one a top 10, then another top 30 and a third that has great potential to break out in that category. Our other SP is still young and controllable for years to come and should not be dealt unless we get blown away by prospects that are close. I would like to say deal the bullpen but we cant get anything for them at this point as nobody is pitching well, Familia is puzzling starting to think he must be hurt.
    Position players that should be dealt: Frazier, great for the clubhouse all or nothing player that is not providing enough all even thou he is a solid defensive player. Cabrera having a good all around season but not a building block and free agent after this season. Flores needs to be a DH, he has no position he can adequately play. He would give an American league team 25+ homers with 280-290 avg if given the at bats. Bruce, probably untradable as another all or nothing player that so far this year has given us nothing. Cesepedes when and if he ever gets back on the field can give us immediate offense and currently untradable.
    The remainder of the year we should be playing Dom Smith at First, McNeil at Second, Rosario at Short (cut Reyes already!), Third is a bit of a question, Flores? McNeil? Cecchini (what happened to him)? Outfield Nimmo, Conforto and any warm body(Bautista) until Cesepedes comes out of hibernation.
    Going fwd we have issues with no prospects at third, catcher or outfielders, specifically center field. Does that mean we should go into complete rebuild mode? I don’t think so, we need to find out what our young players can do and the front office needs to get something right for a change. This of course leads to the question is this the front office you really trust to do a rebuild? They didn’t get anything back last year why will this year be any different? Mickey needs to play the young guys and get these players fired up as I would hate to see him 1 and done.

    • Steve S.
      July 1, 2018 at 1:58 pm

      I’m on board with much of this. I see your point about deGrom, and even though we might get some “sure thing” prospects, I’m worried about them not panning out.
      I think that Frazier might come around, and right now he won’t bring back anything of value. And we might need him at 3B next year, or at least he’d be a decent bench guy.

      We also traded Seaver, who was on a crappy 1970s 60+ win team, and always regretted that trade. And he was about three years older than deGrom is now.

  8. Name
    July 1, 2018 at 7:11 pm

    Just a unusual view point to consider.

    If the goal of “selling” is to tank and try to get a high draft pick, well then do the Mets really need to sell to achieve that? After all, they’ve been 21-46 since their start, which is the 2nd worst in baseball. The current team we have is really good at losing games, so why would you want to break it up and potentially change our misfortune and start winning at a higher rate? We’ve won just 2 of the last 10 deGrom starts – so why do we want to trade him and potentially start a guy who doesn’t have such bad luck?

    Also, a paradox to consider. If the logic is that trading away veterans and replacing them with youngsters = more losing, then why are we clamoring to bring up the same youngsters when we are trying to win?

    • Chris F
      July 1, 2018 at 7:59 pm

      I think the “trying to win” is the tired Sandy/Collins world. Its why we never found out if Cecchini could play. The fact that Bautista and Reyes are taking even a single AB from a person who may matter in the future is criminal.

      It is about the draft…but not entirely. We have zero depth. Trades are critical to fill the system. How many success stories do we need?

      Cubs, Astros, Braves, Phillies etc. At this point that a rebuild is proven. I cannot understand for the lefe of me why doing it is ok, but saying you are doing it is terrible. Anyway, Im sure there’s more than 1 approach, but in a team lacking talent at every level the trades seem necessary. When the team is good enough, niether Jake nor Syndergaard will be here. The FA cost will be prohibitive for ownership.

      • Name
        July 2, 2018 at 9:56 am

        “The fact that Bautista and Reyes are taking even a single AB from a person who may matter in the future is criminal.”

        I think the notion that you know nothing about a player unless you play him in the major leagues is beyond flawed.
        The minor leagues exist for a reason. It gives scouts a chance to evaluate skills and also provides a good (but not perfect) indicator of how likely the player will succeed if they are brought up to the majors. A player hitting .200 in the minor leagues isn’t suddenly going to hit .300 in the majors. Cecchini has accrued over 2500 PA in the minors – and over that time the stats haven’t shown promise nor have the scouts seen enough skills. And so we can use that information we have gathered to make a prediction that he isn’t a MLB caliber player.

        Plus, they already brought him up for a month last year, did you forget that? If you can’t make a call on him by now, then when? It would be like a weatherman waiting until the first flakes have fallen to forecast snow – what’s the point of that?

        • Chris F
          July 2, 2018 at 12:29 pm

          Sure, there is plenty to be gleaned from the minors. But lets look at this in the context of where we are. This team is terrible. It is not winning anything. At this point, it is my opinion, that the best plan is to see if anyone can step up when getting the call. Bautista means zero to the club; Reyes means just a shade more to the club, but is terrible. So to paraphrase timely a famous quote, “Give me Guillorme or give me death”. I know hes not been much in his call up, but Id rather lose with him on the field than Reyes. Any of the kids at this point should have preference for development over the misguided imagination of “winning”, which isnt happening anyway. If they cant cut it, then we know they dont belong. Im good finding that out and losing or winning.

          The only advantage I can see for Bautista whether hes earned enough to have some trade value.

          • Name
            July 2, 2018 at 1:13 pm

            Whatever happened to player development? Sometimes it can be harmful to bring up a guy too early.

            Kevin Plawecki, Dilson Herrera, Chris Flexen, Akeel Morris were hurt by being brought up too early.
            I suspect in a few years we can add Guillorme, Nido, Gerson Bautista, Rosario, Smith to that list.
            Even Conforto hasn’t had a smooth ride.

            Players who are exposed too early can lose confidence, not have a chance to hone their craft, and thus stunting their growth. Sometimes it’s better to stay in the minors.

            • Chris F
              July 2, 2018 at 1:32 pm

              I completely agree that untimely promotions because a team is desperate is a terrible path. I think that may have destroyed a number of our players, most notably Flexen, but yes, Nido and Guillorme too.

              I think Rosario and Smith were reasonable expectations to make the team, but the additional issue is that the actual player development pathway set by Alderson was clearly a significant disappointment. The fact that Rosario and Smith look bad is a testament to his poor stewardship of the minor league system.

              I should add, it is similarly terrible to have Bruce blocking Nimmo at this point. So the issue even extends to the 25 man roster (of course thats Reyes for Rosario too).

    • TexasGusCC
      July 2, 2018 at 2:43 am

      Name, the Mets do not need to tank to rebuild. The Braves who tanked, did most of their rebuilding through international free agents. The Dodgers who didn’t tank, also used IFAs to keep their system top notch. Also, the Cubs and Astros used IFAs to a lesser extent, but used all avenues to improve while the Mets like to keep on the one-way side streets and hope to get lucky. It takes spending, scouting, and aggressiveness. You can’t be afraid of a mistake because a few mistakes like Alex Guerrero will happen, but, you have to have faith and also always sign the talent not the just results. Chris Taylor, Justin Turner, and Brandon Murrow are players the Dodgers brought in that other teams gave up on or didn’t have patience with. None of these guys were drafted. Gurriel is a player the Mets ran away from.

      Chris, I agree on most of your thoughts and want to add that the goal is to add good young players with control. So, if you have a known good young player, why trade him for an unknown good young player?

      • Chris F
        July 2, 2018 at 12:59 pm

        So, if you have a known good young player, why trade him for an unknown good young player?

        I dont think thats really an issue here, but maybe. Nimmo and Conforto can be rebuild pieces. The truth is, if someone were to overpay for both, there’s no reason to pass. Nimmo is riding a 1 month high, lets not pretend hes Ted Williams. I think Conforto is a fine player, but again, is he a perennial all star, silver slugger type? I doubt it (but sure hope…). At face value, both have forward moving value and under control for a long time. I dont think either are going to be the types for a trade deadline move. Noah and Jake are different because they could really bring in a haul.

        I personally think by the time the Mets are relevant in the NLE (now have to climb over the Braves Phillies and Nats) neither will be on the team. If the chance comes to really remake depth and acquire near MLB ready talent then its smart to do, in my opinion. A new GM is going to have a steep task, and just putting winning it all as task 1 is ridiculous. When the Cubs moved on for Theo and Jed, then hired Maddon, they gave him 5 years to get a WS.

        The task gets harder for the Mets given the Braves and Phillies, who both are emerging from their rebuilds, have apparently very good teams, almost no payroll, and tons of talent to trade and money to spend. Lets look at the Braves, with 118M$ payroll this season, and only 35M$ committed to next year, of which 21 is Freeman, and Tehran and Incierte…all they want to keep (Freeman will be NL MVP this year). Can you imagine, 35M$ committed, and nothing but arb and prearb players otherwise, and they are in 1st place? (Dont forget Anthopoulos is GM and a free swinger as GM, so this off season may be something like Harper *and* Machado). How about the Phitin’ Phils? Well they are at 95M$ this season and have 70M$ committed for next year. I figure they have 75M$ available to spend, although we know the Phillies have the capacity for a lot of spending. Formidable to say the least.

        What about the Mets? Presently sitting at ~140M$, they are committed to ~93M$ next year. 34M$ of that is Lagares, Swarzak, Frazier, and Vargas. Cant get a bucket of batting practice balls for them. Then add Wright, Ces, and Bruce for another 58M$ next year, again hard to see the productivity there. So, do you envision a new GM comes in with this pile of putrid contracts that hang on and Team Wilpon says here’s 80M$ to go spend? Well, hey, a unicorn just flew past my office window…but I digress. So the Mets are heading into retraction one way or another. I cant see any chance of dumping more money on top of terrible money already committed. The good news is 2020 has 57M$ committed most to Ces, Wright, and Bruce. I dont see any chance this team is serious until this glut of disastrous contracts is gone, more talent is influxed, and a new FO establishes a decent baseball program. I hope some of what Aldersons drafting did achieves something.

  9. MattyMets
    July 1, 2018 at 9:05 pm

    I think the team needs to do what they did last year and unload the expiring contracts. Also clear the decks of any players who are not part of the future. I’d rather see Guillerme, McNeil or Checchini take their lumps if we’re gonna lose anyway. This coming offseason needs to be handled very differently than the last one.

  10. TexasGusCC
    July 2, 2018 at 1:59 am

    While I agree with your premise, I feel your argument is flawed. To begin with, Bruce hasn’t had a 3.0 fWAR since 2013, and since then hasn’t even been 1.0 until last year when with a fantastic year for him, he reached 2.5 fWAR. Alderson brought him back in because… that’s Alderson. However, Frazier is a fine player that provides strong defense but has no business batting clean-up. Neither did Bruce have any business batting third. Those two hitters in the heart of the order are the reason a 2.6 WAR player in Brandon Nimmo didn’t have more runs scored, especially when that 2.6 was accumulated in just less than two months’ playing time.

    Secondly, while I would also listen and not trade until I’m happy, I would keep an eye on Father Time. Syndergaard may give you five to seven years of this production, possibly ten. DeGrom will give you two, possibly five. The Mets have to trade deGrom because they need to retool and he has the least shelf life. Sure, Wheeler can bring you back Huira – who has a damaged wing and has been DH’ing most of the time because he can’t play the field – but that’s not enough. As you said, the Astros had nine players of 3.0 WAR or better. How many do the Mets have? Potentially, Conforto, DeGrom, Syndergaard, Nimmo, Cespedes?, Frazier? Lagares?? Wheeler?? Matz?? Notice how quickly the cupboard goes bare. That’s the problem. Not enough quality, just a bunch of quantity, the way Alderson does things. Sign a bunch of crap – er, discounts – and wait for a diamond.

    But what is there to trade for? While Cashman thinks he can dictate through the newspapers, I would tell him to pay the freight or clam up. How many 6.0 WAR pitchers will he be able to add, and have him for three playoff runs? However, Torres and Andujar are not just last in fielding statics for their positions, they are very significantly below the player that is second to last. Both would be difficult to get, but the Mets should dictate, not Cashman. If he continues to play the public pity game, turn to the next team.

    So, while I wrote about two weeks ago that Wheeler should get them Huira, especially since Wheeler is going into his walk year next year, I don’t think it’s enough. Trade all the spare parts (Familia/Cabrera/Blevins), but you have to cash in DeGrom. There is no upside left and the shelf life is lessening every day. As they say down here, “Jacob, vaya con Dios”.

    Editor’s Note – Capitals Gus, really? Don’t do that

  11. Mike Walczak
    July 2, 2018 at 8:42 am

    Don’t look at the Marlins rebuild. Jeter did an awful job in dealing his star players.

    This really is a big dilemma. To trade or not to trade. The team lacks talent, a good farm system, has old parts and is slow and unhealthy. That is a formula for failure.

    How many players on the team have proven that they can be counted on? The answer is one, deGrom.

    Alderson shopped at a junk yard and got Gonzalez, Reyes, Vargas, Bautista and yes, Jay Bruce. Todd Frazier is being Todd Frazier, low average, some pop. dArnaud is dArnaud, he got hurt. Same is proving true for Cespedes. It is easy to be seduced by Sundergaards talent. Sure, he goes up there and hurls 100 MPH, but can he pitch? Two years in a row now, he is hurt. Nimmo appears to be good, but he hasn’t proven it over time. Conforto us too up and down. Rosario has a fatal flaw, he has terrible plate discipline. This is not a formula to win.

    The expiring contracts need to go. If Wheelers contract is expiring next year get rid of him too, now.

    So this big question is, what can they get for Syndergaard or deGrom?

    We need changes, let’s see if Omar and gang have the stomach to make them.

    • Chris F
      July 2, 2018 at 1:22 pm

      I pretty much agree with you Mike. But remember Jeter inherited a financial trauma center. The main thing was not acquiring talent, but getting the team solvent (hmm, that sounds familiar…). In the end, they needed to reduce payroll more than anything else. You dont get a team to eat Stantons contract and expect much in return. So its not necessarily fair to judge the Marlins yet. They are gonna lose a lot and their rebuild will be long term. They have no fan base.

      I dont think the Mets are that bad off. They have a lot of fans, a TV network etc. If they spin off the very best talent they have in deGrom, Syndergaard and Conforto, none are making much salary, and so returns will be pure talent.

  12. July 2, 2018 at 1:40 pm

    This team is on pace to be the worst Mets team in over 50 years. Think about that for a second. While there are other mitigating factors, ultimately the players are the reason for the W-L record, and as the saying goes you are what your record says you are.

    Here’s the choice we have right now: lose with a bunch of new players, or lose with what we have now. At least with the former option there is a chance for improvement. The clock has run out on this current bunch.

  13. July 2, 2018 at 2:52 pm

    deGrom is getting Paid and He’s a huge trade chip— if you keep him, you need to commit to more than just hoping that Health and Production returns for Guys like Bruce, Frazier and Ces.

    Whether or not we thought the roster moves would work is immaterial— it’s time to take a clear and different path.

    If they keep deGrom, they need to deal with Salvage operations on reducing or burying the mistakes—and they need to commit to spending money around him….otherwise, they need to trade Him for a haul—followed by a huge roster turn.

    Being afraid that it won’t work out is not an action plan…and neither is “doing the same thing again”.

    • Chris F
      July 2, 2018 at 3:17 pm

      Eraff, We are on a Vulcan Mind Meld. I agree with every fiber of my Mets fandom.

    • TexasGusCC
      July 2, 2018 at 8:52 pm

      The debate isn’t should they improve nor how they need to improve, but rather do we trade known factors with years control for unknown factors.

      As I said earlier, the Dodgers improved without ever being sellers. As to the bad contracts, they have insurance for Wright and Cespedes and if they bring in enough good young players, the overpayment of stiffs will balance out.

      I won’t cry for The Coupons’ pocket as that’s the cost of doing business. Even the Rays have dead money on the balance sheet.

  14. Eraff
    July 2, 2018 at 10:38 pm

    Tex… I’m good with an actual Decision— If they’re keeping the Pitching staff together, they need to spend more money and be agressive about it. BTW—they need to do some things that turn out well!!!!

    If not, they need to sell off and retrench. They can’t do Neither—and they can’t pretend they’re doing both!

    • Steve S.
      July 3, 2018 at 10:10 am

      Yes, finally spend the money that a NYC team should spend!

      If you have to suck it up with bad contracts to Bruce and others, do so. Frazier and Bruce can play part-time, if necessary. Is there insurance on Cespedes, btw?

      Extend deGrom. Seaver was 32 when he was dealt and pitched well until he was 40! Lock up Thor, Wheeler and Matz long term, too. Young starters like these don’t grow on trees!

      This year? Deal Cabrera, Familia, and Blevins. Dump Reyes. Play Smith and the new relievers. Bring up McNeil and Alonso. Let’s see what they’ve got.

      In the off season? Sign Machado for 3B. Sign relievers Kimbrel, Ottavino and/or Herrera.

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