Andy Martino had a list of managers Billy Eppler might be interested in and one of those was Buck Showalter. In his last season managing a team, the 2018 Baltimore Orioles, his squad went 47-115, which is 1962 Mets type of bad. But, Showalter also managed the Orioles to a 96-win season and it might be 25 years before Baltimore sees that many wins again.

It’s hard to remember a time when Showalter wasn’t either a manager or a managerial candidate. His first gig came back when he was just 36 years old with the Yankees back in 1992. The Mets tried to create their own Showalter, in a way, by hiring Luis Rojas at age 38. Somehow the phrase, “Senator, you’re no Jack Kennedy” comes to mind with this particular comparison.

Showalter has won at least 88 games in a season at four different stops in his managerial career. Which is excellent. The Mets have seen an 88-win season just one time in the last 13 years so, you know, it would be an improvement over the Jerry Manuel-Terry Collins-Rojas guys who’ve occupied the dugout for the last baker’s dozen years.

Of course, the question is: How much will Showalter be willing to cede control over managerial moves to the front office? Can the old dog – Showalter will turn 66 early next season – learn new tricks and play nice in the sandbox with others?

In my ideal scenario, the Mets ask Showalter this very question and Showalter replies that he’ll gladly listen to whatever input the front office wants to supply and will incorporate all things that make sense to him, but he’ll be damned if he does something sub-optimal, even if it’s the owner making the demand. And then the Mets hire him.

“You may say I’m a dreamer. But I’m not the only one.”

24 comments on “Wednesday catch-all thread (11/17/21)

  • Name

    Since the World Series ended 2 weeks ago, i thought we would start hearing more about how the CBA negotiations are going but a google search turns up nothing new.
    I wonder if we’ll see a flurry of trades/signings these next 2 weeks as players look to lock up something before the expiration date.

  • TexasGusCC

    I usually read Joel Sherman’s columns with some interest, despite the reputation he has as a Mets hacker. However, today’s column has me permanently writing him in the “LOSER” column with large red letters. He has the gall to write that the Syndergaard didn’t feel loved because there was a week of radio silence between the QO offer and when the Angels GM flew in to have dinner with him? A week? That l o n g? He claims that the Angels pitched the six man rotation to him as a way to allow him to start all year and minimize his innings so he can get healthy. Ok, good for Anaheim. But, they aren’t doing it for Syndergaard, they’re doing it for Ohtani although Syndergaard can benefit.

    If Syndergaard was so offed but the Mets not calling him in a week, why did it take $3MM more to sign him? Sherman writes that many teams were interested,and he lists half of MLB… yada yada yada… no shit Sherman. But after Keith Law yesterday wrote a piece on how risky this is for the Angels, Sherman comes along and creates an angle in order to crap on the Mets. The only crap is his column.

    • ChrisF

      The lead in an article in The Athletic today, by Ken Rosenthal:

      The industry reaction to the Angels agreeing with free-agent right-hander Noah Syndergaard on a one-year, $21 million contract was perhaps best summarized by one rival executive.

      “F—— ludicrous,” the executive said.

      • TexasGusCC

        Chris, I read that article too. Forgot to mention it because I was so annoyed with Sherman’s take. It’s so “out there”, it has to be written with a purpose; and the purpose isn’t journalism. More like Op-Ed.

    • T.J.

      Gus,
      I believe I was in the minority on this site in that I voted yes on the QO for Syndergaard…clearly is wasn’t merited by analysis, which Brian demonstrated quite well, but along the lines of using financial clout to accumulate as much pitching as possible for 2022 without over commitments down the road.

      Clearly, based upon what is in the public domain, Syndergaard’s season ending words were phony, albeit cunning from a business standpoint. He publicly stated his love for the city and Mets, to enhance the likelihood of a QO, which he intended to use as either a fallback position to garner an overpayment, or as a bargaining position to seek a deal elsewhere…his preference all along. He accomplished his goals. As a Met fan, I don’t care for phonies. Emotions aside, he most likely did the team a favor. Sure, he can return to the 2016 Thor, but that is a low probability. The Angels can finance his rehab season for a a big contract, that works for me. Losing him is not a hit to the rotation, because he wasn’t in the rotation for two years and was mostly average the prior season. Just don’t give me Rich Hill as his replacement. Letting Stroman get a better deal elsewhere would be much more damaging…my hope is that his real preference is to stay and not use the Mets as a tool. If that is the case, there is no rational reason not to sign him.

      • TexasGusCC

        T.J., I am with you on most points including the agreement on the QO. I looked at it as an investment in a high upside player on our team. However, the Angles “made him an offer he couldn’t refuse”. That’s all it was and how it should be taken as.

        Noah, thanks for the draft pick, see you at your place for three cups of coffee the second week of June and let’s make a date to have dinner twelve months from now.

        • ChrisF

          A new article by Dave Lennon from Newsday says Noah had no interest in staying in NY and only told the Mets he was not taking the QO on the Plane to LA. Despite all the fake rah-rah it seems clear he wanted out. Pretty childish.

          • Name

            I don’t get all the commotion and the dissection by the fans/media.
            Someone offered him more money and he took it like just like you or me. And of course he didn’t talk ill of his current situation until he had another offer in hand, just like any other adult in any other job.

            • T.J.

              The press loves drama and so do the fans. You are right, but it is also true that Syndergaard was very disingenuous regarding his season end comments of love for Mets, NYC, wanting the QO. If it was true, like any other adult, he’d give the current employer a chance to match. He didn’t. No biggie, good for him, he played the Mets and it worked. In the modern media world, these side shows get more coverage than the games…kinda why some folks want to stay away from NYC.

              • Name

                If you believe what a player says to the media is truly how they feel, you are at worst stupid and at best incredibly naive. Did you really expect him to say, “It’s been fun, but i’m ready for a change of scenery” What’s the point of saying anything other than you love your current situation?

                The nature of a salary negotiation is that one side is always being “played”…. If he had turned around and let the Mets match then he would have simply be “playing” the Angels. And maybe you are more polite than others, but i know of very few in the real working world who have gotten another job offer and then tried to leverage that into getting their current employer to match or pay them more. Again, much to do about nothing

                All i see is a normal adult acting like a normal adult would when pertaining to his job search.

                • T.J.

                  Name,
                  I take what players say to the media with a grain of salt, could be true, could be a lie. Now, I still may be stupid or naive, but that’s another story. My point is, with a gazillion reporters with little to do, and a significant portion of the fanbase emotionally tied to these guys, it becomes a story and adds some drama, gets clicks, etc., which is what reporters do and many fans react to. In reality, as you said, it was essentially basic business in which Syndergaard did what he sees as best for him with his job, and hey, more power to him.

                • Bob P

                  While I may not comment on this site every day I do read it every day including all of the comments. One thing I can say for sure is that of all the commenters TJ consistently has some of the most well thought out and rational comments. He’s clearly not stupid.

                  • Name

                    I apologize to all for the bad wording of my comment.

                    My intent was to say “the act of believing a ballplayer’s words” is stupid, not that TJ is stupid.

                    • T.J.

                      Name,
                      Nothing taken personally…as stated, I agree with your point. I referenced myself because I have my moments as do others, and I don’t consider my opinions any better that anyone else’s, even when I completely disagree. You bring a savvy and astute perspective that not all of our fellow Met fans have.

                      It’s all part of the excellent back and forth in the 360 virtual sports bar, which really has enhanced following this team.

                      BobP – thanks for the kind words…I may reference them when my wife calls me out for acting so irrational…

                • ChrisF

                  I think the thing that is wildly disingenuous is simple here: he had the very generous QO that was going to pay him a fortune for having pitched 2 innings in 2 years, which low confidence that ’22 is going to bring more than 100-120 IP, which would be $150,000 per inning. This was a static offer – meaning there was no deliberation. The Mets QO was final. In that regard there simply was no benefit to all his “I love NY” crap. If he thought that he was planning to negotiate, completely his freedom to do, then e should have kept his mouth closed. All in NY rah-rah was not moving *more* money from the Mets, so this was only a 1-team negotiation. No gamesmanship was needed. And in the end, Syndergaard looks like a childish, spoiled brat.

                  Conforto has his mouth shut. Everyone knows he’s negotiating with other teams, maybe even the Mets. He said his peace right after the season ended and that was all that was necessary. Syndergaard’s over the top “Id be so lucky to get a QO” was useless fluff. All his unnecessarily espoused love for the Mets was just a load of crap, telling the team he was leaving without even as much of a face-to-face notification. If he kept his mouth shut, made a deal woth the Angels and moved on, it would have been baseball business, but this was plain ol being a man-child.

                  Good riddance Noah. I hope the Astros and Mariners pound the living shit out of you.

                  • Name

                    So multiple people have cited his quote of “grateful for the QO”. That innocent line sure seems to be a ticking point. If he hadn’t said that one line, then he wouldn’t be a man child and scumbag? But then i’m sure you will say he also said some other thing that you didn’t like.

                    Even if Noah was on a full court press tour lobbying for the Mets and signed with another team, geez, it’s just part of the business and I just don’t get why anyone takes this stuff personally. That kind of ill will isn’t justified for those who view baseball as a business/career, we should reserve that kind of hatred for cheaters like Cano and Marte.

                    • ChrisF

                      In the nonstop NYC is the greatest city in the world etc, including how happy to get a QO he was. The fact is, if any of that was true, then he would have handled this quite differently. Instead, not seeing if the Mets wanted to even negotiate, but just leaving and giving a call from a plane after leaving the scene of the crime smacks a guy who is pure fake. That kind of stink lingers.

                      I didnt think of him as a significant plus for ’22. The fact is 2 years later and hes still nowhere near 100%. His loss is minimal in my eyes. From a baseball standpoint, its pretty small cheese, especially getting the draft pick in compensation. I just dislike the complete fakeness of his statements, which makes him just a shallow minded man-child, pretty much like Matt Harvey.

                      As for Cano etc, you know how I feel. I’d never let him step foot on any Mets campus ever again. He’s a genuine malignant cheating scumbag.

  • Woodrow

    6 man rotation? Starter starts once a week, has the time come? Certainly DeGrom might benefit from this until his problems improve. 6 starters would mean you could still have a 7 man BP and you can still move pitchers up and down from Triple A.

    .

  • Metsense

    With the Syndergaard rejection the Mets now need starting pitching. Barrios has gotten 7 year extension for $131m and MLBTR breaks it down into $11mi in the arbitration year and $20m for for the next 6 years. Syndergaard signed for 1/21m. Therfore the market for a #2 pitcher is $20 – 21m so far.
    Option 1: Sign Scherzer. MLBTR estimates 3/120. If they want to $40m a year they should do ….
    Option 2: Sign 2 for 3 Stroman (5/110), Gausman(6/138) and Rodon(1/25) . It would bolster the rotation and then they could withstand an injury better.( MLBTR estimates)
    Option 3: Sign one of Stroman, Gausman or Rodon and sign one of Gray(4/56), DeSclafani (3/42) or Wood (3/30).
    Option 3 would save enough money to then sign Bryant (6/160). Also sign Hill at 2.5m as a swing man and depth. They shouldn’t sign a encumbered FA and lose the #14 pick.

    • TexasGusCC

      Metsense, I like Option 3 because I really like Gray.

    • Remember1969

      Where are your numbers coming from? They seem a little out of order. I don’t see how Gausman gets that much more than Stroman. Stroman has Gausman beat on almost every stat there is except # of starts and K/9.
      And Rodon for 1/25? If he was worth anything like that, wouldn’t the ChiSox given him a Q.O. for 18.4? He is a big injury risk.

      • Metsense

        The numbers are from Major Leauge Baseball Trade Rumors (MLBTR) by Tim Dierkes and are estimates.

  • NYM6986

    How can locking up Stroman not be priority #1. With some run support (on the Mets?) he would have won 15-16 games. He had a great season for the Mets with his innings, starts and ERA. Sign him today. Just seems Thor could have done his rehab his career year at Citifield in 2022 and then gone for the multi-year deal after where ever he wanted. I think he wants to be a #1 and would never get that status as a Met. Open the purse strings Cohen and sign some players now. Show us the money. I know it’s only year 2 of the rebuild but with the players who opted out and the kids not ready for prime time we need to at least secure a season over .500 in 2022 before we fall further behind the resurgent Braves and Phillies.

  • Metsense

    Two teams that are struggling financially, according to media, are Oakland and Cleveland. Rumor has it, that they would trade their third basemen. Matt Chapman is a gold glove winner, had a career average .808 OPS , 120 OPS+ and three, 24 plus seasons hitting homeruns. Jose Ramirirez is more of an accomplished hitter and a switch hitter, with a career average. 855 OPS, 126 OPS+ and three 29 plus seasons hitting homeruns. Both have two year remaining of control and are 28 yoa.
    Eppler should try to trade for one of them, even if Batty was included in the package.

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