We have the benefit of history to know how this trade worked out for both clubs. It’s sad for Lee May, who was a fine ballplayer. It’s just that he wasn’t worth Joe Morgan, to say nothing of Jack Billingham and Cesar Geronimo, too.

But this writer looks just as bad as the Astros, trying to spin Tommy Helms‘ .256 AVG as being somehow significant, because it bested Morgan’s by two whole points. Meanwhile, Morgan had a 117 OPS+ in ’71, compared to the 78 mark of Helms. To be fair to the writer, OPS+ didn’t exist at this time. But we know the writer was aware of homers, and Morgan held a 13-3 edge over Helms, despite playing in a much-tougher home park for hitting. And Morgan held a 51-30 edge in XBH, while being three years younger.

Today is Charlie’s day to post but he tells me he’s having computer problems. Hopefully, he will post on his regularly scheduled day for the month later today. and we’ll have Mets content on the site.

9 comments on “Why we don’t use AVG to rate players or trades

  • Hobie

    Can’t say I remember that trade specifically, but Morgan’s deficiencies with the ‘stros were defensive. His nickname was “clank.”
    Thinking about him turning that rep around whispers “Mauricio” in my ears.

    • John Steward

      I’ve been an Astros fan since the late 60s, as a young boy in Houston. This trade was a typical power-blunder by the Astros. The Astros in the 1970s were boring. They were a boring team. They hovered around .500, falling to a pit in 1975 (64 – 97 – 1). This was in the middle of a 5 year run of mediocrity. They weren’t loveable losers like the Cubs and Red Sox. It was just one boring, mediocre season after another.

      Joe Morgan was traded to the Reds after the 1971 season (I was 7, and heartbroken). They didn’t have the analytical tools back then (Thanks a lot, Bill James, too late with Baseball Abstract in the 1980s), but Morgan was coming off a 5.6 bWAR season with the Astros. In 1972 with the Reds he had a 9.3 bWAR. From 1972 to 1976, he averaged 9.6 bWAR per season. That is an incredible run, it just wasn’t for the benefit of Houston.

  • ChrisF

    So interesting to read that article. Really fascinating. Reminded me of the Fregosi for Ryan in the same sad way.

    ______

    Ive been really wondering about the hot pursuit of YY and how the Mets are selling the team to him. Certainly the Crankees can point to the acquisition of Soto as “All in now”, whereas the Mets seem to be saying trust us for ‘25 while we spend a year retooling and making moves around the edges. Im excited that Cohen and Stearns went to Japan. That’s really phenomenal, but I wonder how they spin the sell?

    ______

    I like the idea of a Mauricio v Baty caged death match for 3B this year. Let’s hope the sophomore “slump” doesnt impact the competition. I confess to be more than a little worried that we cannot seem to home grow a competent player, trade for one, or buy a quality 3B. I hope there is resolution. I’d be happy with a consistent 1.5 WAR player at 3B.

    ______

    With the winter meetings Nashville just in the rear view mirror, I remember going there a decade ago when DWright re-signed to stay a lifer. I was standing by the MLB set when Wright emerged from a private room where he did the deal and I happened to be standing right there – I got his first autograph as a newly minted “re-Met”. I even made it into a photo in the NYT! It was crazy to see the whole carnival first hand. Standing right there I also had the wonderful fortune to meet and chat with Tommy Lasorda for a couple minutes. If you ever are near where they run a winter meeting, I’d recommend going!

    ____

    Here’s some perspective: Pitchers and Catchers report about 2 months from now!

    • José Hunter

      Mike:
      I met Joel Youngblood back in… I’d say 1979.
      Turns out that we had the same optometrist, this guy out in Flushing
      One day my opto asked me if I liked baseball, and when I said yes, he told me there was someone I should meet.
      Needless to say I was thrilled and got to talk to him for ten minutes.
      He was, at the time, OF D stud, and led the NL with 18 OF assists that year

      Very handsome fellow
      But was most impressive about his appearance was the extremely high quality rug perched atop his dome.
      In fact, I didn’t realize it wasn’t natural turf

      • Brian Joura

        Too funny!

        My sister was no Mets fan but as I watched as many games as I could, she would see some games just being in the house. She decided that Youngblood was cute and didn’t believe me when I told her he had a chrome dome. She never saw him without his hat on. I guess he did something about it!

  • John From Albany

    Whitey Herzog when he was in the Mets Front Office had a deal with the Astros to bring Jimmy Wynn and Joe Morgan to the Mets for a package that included Agee and I think Gentry – Bob Scheffing nixed that deal. What might have been.

  • Woodrow

    Is there a sophomore slump if your rookie year was a stinking one?

    • Brian Joura

      Rey Ordonez had a 60 OPS+ as a rookie in ’96 and followed that up with a 36 OPS+ in his sophomore season.

  • NYM6986

    What struck me the most from the article is that I remember watching all of those players. Never really knew if Morgan was a good fielder but with that arm flap and powerful bat he was fun to watch and an important part of the Big Red Machine.

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