Reed Garrett threw 45 pitches in a three-inning stint on 4/4 and then got three days off before throwing 34 pitches in 2.1 IP on 4/8. He did not appear yesterday and hopefully the Mets can give him today off, too.

For years, I’ve been advocating for multiple guys in the bullpen capable of throwing multiple innings. And it’s my opinion that it’s easier to function with three guys who can operate this way. Of course, saying to use guys for multiple innings is a lot easier than finding guys who can be good in the role. Adam Ottavino is a pretty solid reliever but you wouldn’t want to use him for more than three outs if you could possibly help it.

Michael Tonkin could have been one of those guys. Instead, he was used twice in extra innings with a runner already on second base. That was bad managing. And now he’s on the Twins. Yohan Ramirez was potentially one of those guys but his results were not good and now he’s been DFAd, too. So, where does that leave us for multi-inning guys?

We haven’t heard much about Sean Reid-Foley but he’s a potential guy in this role. And Dedniel Nunez threw his hat in the ring with his two-inning stint Tuesday. Can Cole Sulser survive as a multi-inning guy?

There’s been talk about Jose Butto or Tylor Megill as a bulk reliever. My opinion is that Butto should be in the rotation. And while Megill as a reliever seems like it would work, in his brief time out of the pen in the majors, he’s had worse numbers than he did as a starter. My preference would be to see Joey Lucchesi as a multi-inning guy.

Additionally, there’s been some chatter in these parts about using Adrian Houser this way out of the pen. Since he’s unlikely to go more than five innings, that certainly sounds reasonable. But after cutting his walk rate last year, it’s back over 4.0 per nine for the third time in four years. Gus was pointing out how many middle-middle type pitches he was throwing Tuesday. Lots of baserunners along with pitches in the heart of the strike zone doesn’t sound like a good recipe for success.

On one hand, it’s hard to discuss putting together three multi-inning relievers when the rotation is in flux, which it is with the injuries to Megill and Kodai Senga. But on the other hand, with SP consistently unable to go past five innings, it’s more necessary than ever. It’s always tough to manage a bullpen. In the immediate term, the Mets’ three-best relievers have gotten the past two games off, so they should be good to go for the rest of the series against the Braves.

But the hope is that you have a plan where we don’t have a repeat of Monday night when none of those guys were available to pitch. My opinion continues to be to stock the pen with three guys capable of going multiple innings. Carlos Mendoza did what he had to do with the pen to keep afloat after the 0-5 start to the season. He gets a pass for painting himself in the corner this time. Let’s hope we don’t see it happen again anytime soon.

22 comments on “Wednesday catch-all thread (4/10/24)

  • José Hunter

    Does anyone have any thoughts on the controversy concerning the alleged rash of pitching arm injuries?

    One side (players association, I think) claims it has to do with the ever shortening pitch clock, whereas the opposition (commissioners office, I think) claims the injury stats over the last two years does not support this… according to one analysis of one John Hopkins study

    • Brian Joura

      Pitchers always have and always will get hurt.

      My opinion is that the MLBPA was trying to win a PR battle by claiming that the pitch clock was responsible. But the owners had a response ready to go, so I feel like the players’ gambit didn’t work.

  • Brian Joura

    The Mets have selected the contract of LHP Tyler Jay from Syracuse (AAA) and optioned RHP Dedniel Núñez to Syracuse. Jay will wear #74. In addition, the Mets transferred RHP Kodai Senga to the 60-Day IL.

  • Metsense

    Tonkin was a multi-inning pitcher and was used, for the majority of the time, by the Braves before the 8th inning unless the game had a differential of 4 runs. He was above average in that role. Houser, Megill and Lucchesi are better pitchers than Tonkin in that role. Butto should be in the rotation. I also think the bullpen should have three capable long relievers. Right now, Garrett, Lucchesi and Houser should be the long men in the bullpen.

    • Brian Joura

      The current staff has 4 SP and 9 RP, with the expectation that Butto will be called up when he’s eligible to be the fifth starter. If you take Houser out of the rotation and put Lucchesi in the bullpen – who becomes the 5th SP?

      Also if we look at Diaz, Raley, Ottavino and Diekman in the pen and you add Garrett, Lucchesi and Houser — who is the 8th RP? Is it Smith or Lopez? Mets seem to love both of them.

      • ¹Metsense

        The four rotation starters are now Manaea, Quintana, Severino and Houser. Butto will join them. That is 5 pitchers.
        Diaz, Ottavino, Raley, Smith, Diekman, Lopez and Garrett are in the bullpen. That is 7 pitchers.
        Lucchesi makes 8.
        Nunez, Sulser and Jay have options. When Megill gets back then they will appraise that situation. The way things look now, Diekman could be in jeopardy but things change.

        • Metstabolism

          That framework leaves them with no SP depth in the minors. At least one of Megill, Butto, or Lucchesi needs to stay stretched out. We’re still a good two months away from even knowing if, let alone which prospect will be ready for a call-up. Max Kranick started his rehab assignment over the weekend, but only went one inning.
          As you said, things change. BOTR and bullpens are often fluid all season long for mediocre and weak teams.

          • ¹Metsense

            I realize that there is no depth with this framework but the major league bullpen needs two or three long relievers now. It is a needed plug for their leaking bullpen. Senga, Megill, Reid-Foley, Peterson and Kranick will eventually heal but they need their depth insurance policy cashed in now, In an emergency they can have always have a ” bullpen game” with the long relievers pitching the bulk of the game. They are in jeopardy of burning their bullpen if they continue their ways.

  • Metstabolism

    Sean Reid-Foley is on the IL with a shoulder impingement. Hasn’t started a rehab assignment yet, so his return is not imminent.

  • Brian Joura

    From SNY:

    Reliever Sean Reid-Foley is “progressing well” in his recovery from a shoulder impingement that landed him on the injured list to start the season, manager Carlos Mendoza said as he provided updates on a few of the Mets’ injuries after Wednesday’s game in Atlanta was postponed due to the threat of rain.

    “He threw a bullpen, I think, two days ago,” the skipper said of Reid-Foley, “he’s feeling well, progressing well, so everything is positive for him so far.”


    Right-hander Tylor Megill, on the 15-day injured list with a shoulder strain, was ill the last few days but was at the ballpark before Wednesday’s rainout and Mendoza said he is “feeling good” and “should be getting close to start playing catch.”

    Not a surprise since his injury happened earlier but it looks like SRF will be ready before Megill

  • NYM6986

    Sorry but The Mets went into this season with a rotation that was questionable at every starter position. There was no one they had that would even be considered a number two on any other team. Blake Snell would not have been the answer as he got shelled in his first start and he only throws five innings. Jordan Montgomery would’ve been a better pick up and given us a real starting picture without a question of whether he could perform. Yes, it would’ve cost of $25 million plus a $25 million penalty, and even though we have about the fourth best ERA in baseball right now, with our sporadic hitting, we need a couple of shut down pictchers. I fully understand the need to decrease payroll, and save dollars for next year’s free agent class, but we will not win a lot of games unless all of our hitters start hitting. That they sign a pitcher, and DFA him the next day, appears to show a lack of evaluation of talent. Sorry for the negativity but our rotation It’s simply not set up to win because we can’t throw 3 to 4 relievers out there every night and expect them to hold up. Thankful for tonight’s rain out.

    • Metstabolism

      What you’re saying is not negative, its reality. So much so that signing Jordan Montgomery would not have been enough to make this a true playoff-caliber rotation. They might have had a puncher’s chance (at best) of winning a series, but thats about it.
      This team isn’t built or designed to win this year. This a year for transition, evaluation, and laying some groundwork for next year. Frankly, I worry about what happens if they get hot and hang around the wild card race. What will they do then? Trade prospects for rentals? For a team that has too many holes to go the distance, anyway?

  • Steve_S.

    Counting the weeks until Christian Scott starts for the Mets. Tonight, he struck out 10 batters in 5 innings, while giving up 2 hits (one of which was a HR) and a walk for Syracuse. Vientos hit another HR in the game and Iglesias continued to hit (OPS of 1.009).

    And Jett Williams finally broke out tonight with a double and a triple for Binghamton .

  • José Hunter

    Well, since it’s Wednesday…

    I think that MLB needs to reduce the number of innings a pitcher must pitch in order to qualify for the ERA title.
    It’s been stuck at 162 ever since 1962 (?), and stayed that way through the birth of the AL DH, when popping 300 innings in a season was fairly common. Since then, well…
    I can’t remember the last time someone crossed 235 IPs in a season

    What do you guys think is a reasonable number of IPs to qualify?

    • Brian Joura

      In 1969 there were 12 teams in the NL and 41 pitchers qualified for the ERA title
      In 1973 there were 12 teams in the NL and 47 pitchers qualified for the ERA title
      In 1986 there were 12 teams in the NL and 34 pitchers qualified for the ERA title
      In 2000 there were 16 teams in the NL and 46 pitchers qualified for the ERA title
      In 2015 there were 15 teams in the NL and 38 pitchers qualified for the ERA title

      If you want the same rate of pitchers qualifying on a per team basis as 2015 – roughly 2.5 – the innings requirement last year would have needed to have been 131 IP. And it would have needed to be an even lower threshold if we tried to match what happened any other year the Mets were in the World Series.

      So, the question is if you want to lower innings standards to keep the number of qualified hurlers at more of a traditional rate or if you want to say – tough, you want to qualify, then pitch more innings. There were 20 pitchers in the NL last year that qualified.

      I don’t believe it’s realistic to think a current starter can throw 300 innings. But at the same time, a 200-inning season shouldn’t be out of reach. At some point, teams are going to realize that a 110-pitch cap on pitches in a start isn’t necessary in every single outing for every single pitcher. Doesn’t mean that a starter has to throw that many in a game. But there are times when all of the conditions are right and teams should let it happen.

      My take is to keep the innings limit at 162. And FWIW, the last time someone pitched at least 235 IP in a season was 2014, when Johnny Cueto threw 243.2 innings.

  • José Hunter

    Just doing some quick mental computations

    162 games per season, 5 man rotation, that works out to 32 or 33 starts per pitcher
    Average of 5 innings per start works out to 160 to 165 IPs per pitcher
    That doesn’t seem like such a severe requirement, right?
    Then why are so few pitchers crossing that threshold these days compared to the past?

    Hmm… 5 man rotation cancels 5 innings pitched in my calculation, should have seen that answer without any thought really

  • NYM6986

    So qualifying for the ERA title means you could throw between 5-6 innings a game for 30 starts to get to the 162 innings. So stay healthy and qualify. Throw less and don’t. Lowering the limit is like widening the bases resulting in more steals. I do believe that they need to make a quality start six innings because for many the days of throwing six or more innings are fewer and fewer. And while we have an open thread, it’s kids throwing 90 MPH in high school and increasing it in college or the minors, that is causing more arm injuries. Not the stupid pitch clock that I hated until it cut a boatload of time off the games.

  • David Groveman

    Christian Scott had a second very good outing in a row for AAA as Mark Vientos stays hot there. Sadly, Vientos has also begun to show his defensive shortcomings at third. While this is the position he’s spent the most time at, I would prefer for him to spend more time at first and left field.

    Jett Williams had a nice night last night netting a double and a triple but sadly Tyler Stuart was not so great.

    Nolan McLean pitched for Brooklyn and had himself a solid (if short) first start (3.1 IP). He has not been used as a batter as of yet this year.

    Lastly, both Mike Vasil and Dominic Hamel have looked bad in their early outings.

    • Metstabolism

      A lot of dynamiocs that could change and move Vientos off of 3B in May, (but not sooner, IMO). If Baty continues to perform the way he has, there will no longer be a need for Vientos as a Plan B.
      Choi has another opt-out on May 1st. I don’t think he stick around after that. Or the Mets might opt to give him his release, anyway, and use the playing time for the prospects.
      Lastly, the PRP treatment for JDM tells me that his issue is something much bigger than just “general body and muscle soreness”. An extended absence for him could mean a Vientos call-up.
      If Vientos does move, it will not be to OF. The Mets tried Vientos (and Baty) in the OF for two weeks each when they were both in AA together. Interviews with Mets’ brass indicated that Baty was OK, Vientos was not.

    • Metstabolism

      To be fair, Vasil had struggled in two starts. Hamel only had one prior to tonight.

      PS Hamel was strong tonight, allowing only 4 runners in 5 innings and striking out 10.

  • Steve_S.

    Friday Night:

    Acuna played CF for Syracuse and got 2 singles, a SB, and a CS. Lucchesi is next in line after Butto to start and pitched 6 innings, giving up 5 hits and 2 walks. Fujinami pitched 1 1/3 innings of perfect ball. Walker pitched 1 2/3 innings of the same.

    McLean DH’d for Brooklyn and hit a HR; he didn’t pitch.

  • Barry

    Why is Lindor never dropped in the lineup? He’s killing the team batting third (or second).
    Every other player who struggles for an extended period gets moved. McNeil was a batting champion and he got moved. (BTW he should be hitting third).

    I know that Lindor historically hits poorly in April, but these stats are off-the-chart bad.
    His OPS+ is 15. 15, where 100 is an average player.

    I really think there is something wrong with him. He had surgery for a bone spur in his right elbow in the off-season. Is there any evidence the surgery could affect production?

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