Since Sandy Alderson took over as the general manager of the New York Mets, offense has been the need. Through the draft, Alderson and Co. have attempted to replenish a minor league system that desperately needed offense. They signed guys like Curtis Granderson in the hopes that he can give the lineup a boost over the next four seasons.
At one position, second base, the Mets have two guys that have the talent to play every day. Those two men would be Wilmer Flores and Daniel Murphy. Murphy, the All-Star, has emerged as one of the Mets best hitters and one of their best hitters in Citi Field, a place that has plague Mets bats.
On the other side of the coin is Wilmer Flores, a man with a very similar story to Murphy. He is very talented with his bat, as evident by his current stint in Las Vegas. But he is a man without a home. His natural position is third, which is occupied by David Wright. Defensively, he leaves much to be desired at shortstop. So that just leaves the right side of the infield. Murphy has second base locked down and Flores has very limited time playing first base regularly.
So for a team that has a longing desire for offense, leaving one of their better hitters and younger players to rot in the minors makes little sense.
The Mets have a decision to make. It doesn’t help the Mets to keep a young, talented hitter from helping them in the big leagues or helping them as a piece in a trade.
Either the Mets can trade Flores or Murphy. There doesn’t seem to be a situation where both can play every day. Flores, in his short stint in the big leagues has struggled with getting limited at-bats and being a bench player.
It doesn’t matter which player the Mets want to go with at second base for the future, but somebody needs to stay and somebody needs to go.
Murphy is a hitter, a commodity that is scarce on the open market and he has value to a contender at the trade deadline. Flores is more of a piece in a trade to get a big bat this winter. But both have their value and that value needs to be cashed in on by Alderson and Co. before it no longer exists.
If the money attached to Murphy scares the front office, then now would be the time to move him, when his value is at an all-time high. If the money isn’t an issue and they like what Murphy can bring to the table, then trading Flores when his value as a hitting prospect is at its peak makes most sense.
Nobody knows what Sandy Alderson and the rest of the front office are thinking, but they have to know what they have in Wilmer Flores. And if they feel he can give what Murphy gives, or something close to that, then they will pull the trigger on a Murphy deal. They realize that keeping both of these guys helps no one, unless they can find a way to play them both on a daily basis which doesn’t seem likely.
This is a decision that can result in the Mets bringing in the new talent that they are looking for. But it’s a decision that needs to be made quickly, before the Mets are stuck with two pieces with no value and no new talent to show for it.
Why do we have to decide now?
Flores has proven nothing at the MLB level and probably has much less trade value than Met fans think. Frankly, he’s still living off what he did as a 16 year old.
Injuries happen all the time, and there’s nothing wrong with having depths in the minors.
Murphy’s contract ends in 1.5 years; why is having a peaceful transition totally outrageous? Assuming he continues his current pace, he’d likely decline a QO and we can still get a draft pick for him.
If Flores is such a good hitter why isn’t he playing LF?
Funny, I thought about that when I seen Ackley playing out there for Seattle. I think the Murphy a few years ago has scared mets fans off from that kind of idea. BTW, I am listening to the Vegas game and notice Nick Franklin is on the opposing team. I looked at his stats, and Flores is hitting 30 points higher, has more home runs, and more RBI in far less at bats. However, everyone talked all off season about how good Franklins bat is. I think Flores hitting ability gets overlooked. Remember Murphy hit 266 in his first full season with the mets. Sometimes it takes time for guys to hit big league pitching
Interesting comments, you are right that Flores has not proven much in the big leagues, but he is not living off what he did at age 16. The dude just had a 22 game hitting streak broken and is batting well over 300 in AAA for the 2nd year in a row at the young age of 22 (or 23). The guy has talent, but like Murphy will be a bit streaky due to being an aggressive hitter. The way the team handled him hurt his development. He also hit into some tough luck in RBI situations.
Murphy is a very good hitter, and we all love his hustle, however he is not good defensively, and has bad baseball instincts. I don’t think committing a 4 year deal to Murphy is a good idea due to our depth at the position in the minors. Herrara looks to be only 2 years away at the most. I agree though that having guys ready to go in the minors is good. Problem is most young players need some time to develop in the bigs, not AAA
You are none too bright to think Flores hasn’t shown himself to the Mets as a good hitter. Look at his stats? The Mets cannot afford to keep Murphy from a financial perspective so they will need to trade him while his value is at it’s highest. The only other way around this is to install Wilmer as the 1st baseman, and trade Duda while bringing up Allan Dykstra to play 1st until Flores is ready to takeover the position. The Mets should have Flores in winter ball learning the nuances of 1st base.
I said he hasn’t shown anything at the MLB level.
Career .219 hitter , .519 OPS.
Last year, his numbers were not overly impressive at all. Vegas position players had a ~840 OPS, which makes Flores’s .870 only slightly above average.
This year, he’s doing better overall, though most of his production is with his second stint at Vegas. In his first stint, he was once again barely above average.
I wouldn’t trade Murphy, a proven MLB professional hitter. Flores hasn’t proved anything.
I think the Mets should trade Murphy for that exact reason. Murph is more proven, so he’ll get a higher return for us. Also, he’s about to start earning a bunch of money, around 13 mil a year.
Flores hasnt proven anything because he hasnt gotten consistent playing time. But if he hits .300 with 20 hr’s and 80 rbi’s i wouldnt be surprised. He has all the potential to be better than Murphy.
Dont even get me started on Herrera!
You don’t trade a proven commodity for potential that may never pan out.
Although care needs to be taken, quite frankly that’s simply not true. Mlb talent is traded for prospects all the time. Murph is due a large raise and a real contract extension that will run 4/48M$. Given his shady defense, I’m not sure a trade is out of the question by any means.
I think we should make a decision. This is Wilmer’s second full year at AAA – he’s got nothing left to prove. Both he and Murph have maximized whatever trade value they’ll garner on the open market, so as Monty Hall use to say… “Let’s Make a Deal!” lol
It’s not an easy call. Murphy can def hang with the big boys in the later innings & Wilmer sometimes has appeared a little lost. But so did Murph in his early 20’s.
I’m leaning toward trading Murphy for two reasons: first, Wilmer has more upside; second, Murph will yield a better catch on the open market. But it’s not an easy call. Before you know it, Herrera’s going to be chasing everyone away from 2nd base anyway lol
First thing SA needs to do is dfa CY & Abreu, promote either Brown or MDD and bring Wilmer up once and for all.
CY is an albatross around Sandy’s neck. He’ll either trade him for low level prospects or wait after the trading deadline to unload CY. When was the last time the FO ate a contract. It’s just not SA’s MO.
Jason Bay—and for a lot more than what CY is owed. I think CYs trade value is zero especially as he still has 3M$ on the books for him. Any team would want us to pick up nearly all the freight on the contract, and I wonder what kind of prospects we would get for a guy that can’t hit for power or average.
I don’t think they have to make a decision now, but Alderson should certainly listen to any offers that include Murphy. Murph is a quirky player, and even at a $9 million salary in 2015 he should provide value. Flores spending 2 seasons in AAA is not a bad thing…he is still just short of 23 years old and getting 4 ABs a day, even in the PCL, is better than watching in the majors. It all comes down to value. Colon needs to be dealt to free up those payroll dollars, but for Murph they can sit tight unless someone ponies up a nice piece.
I just got in from the B Mets game.
Dilson Herrera is electrifying. Great bat speed. Quick reflexes.
Strong.
Offense solid. Defense was better than I was led to believe.
He is tearing it up in AA.
This winter, Daniel Murphy and a starting pitcher should be traded for an established quality impact bat. Murphy is arb eligible and his estimated salary starts at $8M. Applying that money along with CY’s $7.25M could go toward the salary of the established quality impact bat. Flores should get the same opportunity as TdA got this year but if Flores should fail, then Herrera will be there to get his chance. There is depth at second base in the Met system. Murphy is the key to obtaining this established quality impact bat. This winter, Flores or Herrera will not have anywhere near Murphy’s trade value. Murphy’s value is similar to Hubie Brooks value in the Gary Carter trade.
Peter Hyatt, thanks for the live scouting report. It was enjoyed and appreciated.
Metsense with that 15 million+I still believe the Mets should inquire about CarGo with the Rockies. Would go a long way to setting the outfield and the line up for several years to come.
Both Tulo & Cargo’s stats away from Coors are rather pedestrian. Both are injury – prone and quite expensive. In the absence of a clear and affordable MLB external option, we should simply dfa CY and Abreu and promote Flores and either Brown or MDD
But we both know that SA will never DFA a 7 million dollar mistake. Cargo was out this year are down because he had a tumor removed so if you consider that an injury fine. I understand your point but this team needs another bat and I don’t want SA bargain shopping again next off season.
Sorry about that should read and his numbers are down
Agree about Tulo and Cargo’s numbers inflated by Coors Field and both are injured often. I wouldn’t be willing to sell some of our bright future and financial flexibility for either. Too much of a risk. I’d opt for someone younger but as established like Stanton. Not that I think he’s available but he matches the profile of a top flight player id be willing to trade for.
Ruben Tejada’s beaning also plays a part in this. If he goes on the DL for a concussion or as a precautionary measure, then Flores might get some AB’s at short. Tough for Tejada, we were seeing that kid we all liked in 2011 and 2012 again, accept with better D.
Another observation from last night:
Brandon Nimmo is struggling since his promotion. His body language looks defeated. He needs to catch his breath and step back and come out fresh. 3 times he made only weak contact, but the shoulders were down on this natural athlete. He is tall, but very skinny and is only going to get stronger. One at-bat he went the other way, which was good contact, but still struggling. I hope he heats up soon. He is young. He could readily add up to 20 pounds of muscle on his frame over the next 2 years.
Dilson…
Even the Portland-friendly crowd could not but watch him. He even received applause from the Mainers. He is not simply fast, but has quick reflexes and tremendous bat speed.
Matt Reynolds continues to hit at AAA.
Murphy-Murphy, trading him would be a typical Met move. I guess they forgot about the Jeff Kent deal….LF and SS is the issue then if it’s all about the $$$$ the Mets will never go any place
Just leave Flores at shortstop, that’s his natural position. He has a good arm and he charges the ball well. Tejada will never provide the offense that Flores provides.
Murphy can get return value by himself. Flores will most likely have to be added to a pile of prospects to get anything done. Therefore, it seems like moving Murph is a move for 2015, while moving Flores and others is a move for right now. If Flores can field even remotely at 2B, then his offensive potential and youth will probably win out. But nobody really knows what this FO thinks, because they keep everything so secretive.
I agree Patrick. You”ll get a far better package of prospects for Murphy. Maybe they could then be used for a package deal for a decent hitting left fielder.
The same way they had Flores play SS in winter ball last year? Right? Oh I forgot to mention that they Did Not have him play SS last off season. So much for having a game plan for Flores and his future.
Get Wilmer some playing time at the MLB over the next 50 games. He can play for murph one day, Tejada the next and then Wright the day after that. Then a day off. Lets see if he can hit in the MLB. If he can, we’ll know if Murph is expendable.
If you want a young stud like Stanton who is the foundation of the Marlins you have to give up the same if not more. That’s 2 top pitchers and your best offensive prospect for starters. And remember the Marlins don’t want any additional payroll.