Last season, the Mets were hoping that Ruben Tejada would bounce back into a .280 hitter and a solid defensive player. The defense was not terrible, as he had a .984 fielding percentage, and was posted a 3 in defensive runs saved above average according to baseballreference.com. Sadly, the offensive side did not improve by much, as Tejada hit .237. Manager Terry Collins is trying to get some sort of production out of his shortstop position, and has said that he is giving Matt Reynolds a look at shortstop in Spring Training. It seems that the shortstop competition is between Wilmer Flores, Reynolds and Tejada, but why is Wilfredo Tovar left out of this conversation?
Offensively, Flores and Reynolds hold the upper hand. Flores hit 6 homers in 78 games last season for the Mets, and his potential is through the roof, as he seems to be a run producer. In the minors, he had four seasons of 75 RBIs or more, showing he can bring runners home. Reynolds on the other hand hit 6 homers in the minors, but had a .343 average between Double-A Binghamton and Triple-A Las Vegas.
While both of these players have offensive upside, their defense is the problem, as Flores is able to make the routine plays, but struggles with range, and Reynolds has posted a .959 fielding percentage at shortstop in the minors. This is where the argument for Tovar comes into play.
Last season, the Baltimore Orioles and Kansas City Royals had three Gold Glove winners, and both teams were in the playoffs. Obviously having three Gold Glove winners is not the sole factor in determining if a team is playoff bound or not, however it helps tremendously. The Mets already boast one Gold Glover with Juan Lagares in centerfield, but the up-the-middle defense is struggling in the infield spots. Daniel Murphy has posted negative dWAR the past three seasons, and the other fielding statistics are not too friendly, as last season Murphy posted a -10 for defensive runs saved. This means that the shortstop should be defensive oriented, and Tovar has been known for being a great defender. Through the 2010-2012 seasons, Tovar was rated as the Best Defensive Infielder in the Mets minor league system according to baseballamerica.com. Even Wally Backman has praised Tovar’s defensive prowess, saying, “He’ll make any play a major leaguer will make,” back in 2010.
Offensively, Tovar may be able to hit .280 and get on base at a decent rate. Last season in the Double-A Binghamton he hit .282 and had an OBP of .345. It seems highly unlikely that Tovar will provide the power that Flores and Reynolds could bring to the table, but it seems that the shortstop position will be batting eighth in the lineup this season, therefore the lineup does not need an offensive oriented shortstop on an everyday basis.
If the Mets are going to have an open tryout for the shortstop position, Tovar should get a look. As of now, it seems that Flores will be the everyday starter, and Tejada will be the backup middle infielder. It is good that the organization is giving Reynolds a look, but it does not make sense why Tovar is being overlooked.
I’ve wondered the same thing. I’ve seen him play at Binghamton and his defense is impressive and his offensive numbers, for a shortstop, are okay. .282 at AA could translate into .250 in the majors and that is a solid major league shortstop.
if we got flores-reynolds-tovar we dont need a ss lets platoon and switch from within here
Four shortstops and we aren’t quite sure what any of them can do going into this year. While I think the organization is heading in the positive direction, this sort of ambiguity in both the minors and majors is discouraging.
Doesn’t that speak volumes about the leadership of this organization? In successful organizations, the first time the manager screws over his boss, he’s gone. The GM fashions the team, but the manager manages the game. Flores was brought up to play last year in May, and The Moron wouldn’t play him. Hard to understand why he still has a job, or how he helps this team.
Does that mean Alderson doesn’t want Flores at SS? An open competition at the major league level is pretty damn embarrassing Gus. Rudderless ship with an inept captain at its helm
For sure Pete, if Alderson was supporting Flores, he wouldn’t be so openly looking for a SS; but what did he have to lose by getting him four or five months to show something? And, why did it take an August 3rd meeting with The Moron to get Flores into the lineup? Are they a partnership or something? Is Fred Wilpon’s friendship with Koufax still screwing this team?
Sandy hired Collins, he extended Collins, and has consistently praised Collins for the job he’s done.
TC does what’s he’s told. I’m sure he has input, but he is not the final decision-maker.
Come on guys, 280 at Double A with no,power, probably means 210 in the Bigs. Give it a rest.
Food for thought: What if his offense translated more into .220/.280/.285 with only singles and a handful of stolen bases? Is strong defense worth a weak point in the lineup?
Personally, I’m not opposed to an old-school shortstop who doesn’t do much at the plate but dazzles in the field. That said, our offense has a lot of question marks and there’s a lot of unproven/developing youth on the roster. If I was a little more confident about the other seven hitters, I’d sign off on Tovar at SS and Flores at 2B.
Great point Mike. Even if Tovar hit .220 and stole a couple of bases, I think his defense would be strong enough to justify a spot in the lineup. I highly doubt he will be used this season, but it surprises me how he is overlooked for this position. Hopefully the Mets lineup is deep enough that they can have a strong defensive shortstop in the lineup a couple of games, and it won’t hinder the offensive output.
What galls me is the team throwing money away on Ruben Tejada to the tune of nearly $2 million when they could have had Everth Cabrera with world class speed (and baggage, true) for about the same price or Wilfredo Tovar with superior defense and speed (and already on the 40-man roster) for minimum wage as a backup to Wilmer Flores. As it is now, the first time Flores strings together a couple of 0-4 games we’ll see Tejada starting. After all, the mental midget with the lineup pencil didn’t even start the guy for a week after he drove in 6 RBIs the first time earlier in the season.
“What galls me is the team throwing money away on Ruben Tejada to the tune of nearly $2 million”
This is just a terrible and stupid statement.
Let’s look at WAR. 1.4 bWAR. 1.2 fWAR last year. 1.4+ bWAR in 3 out of 5 seasons, 1.2+ fWAR in 3 out of 5 seasons. Easily worth 1.88 million.
Don’t like WAR? Let’s look at what some insanely old SS’s got.
Clint Barmes – 1/1.5 million
Last year- Brendan Ryan 2/5.
Willie Bloomquist – 2/5.8
And Tejada is “still” just 25. Younger than Lagares, TDA, and even Harvey.
A SS who still has ability for growth would easily get 3-4 mil on the open market.
Where is this “speed” you see of Tovar? He averages 10-15 bags per yearwith a high of 17 in the rookie leagues. For comparison, Tejada stole 19 bags in 09 at AA and he’s lucky to get 5 in the majors.
Batting 8th most of the time with the pitcher batting with 2 outs tends to limit the chances of trying to steal a base.
If Tovar starts at shortstop, it would be a complete trainwreck from the start. The guy is simply not a major-league caliber offensive player.
That being said, considering the Mets financial situation, it would seem like a good idea to save about 1.5 million and let him be the back-up middle infielder. He clearly has a glove that could rival that of Andrelton Simmons.
In the end, he is a young version of Brendan Ryan. Nothing more. But he does (and should) have a spot on the roster.
Tovar is 4th on the depth chart for good reason. He is not better offensively than Flores, Tejada and Reynolds and his defense does not stand out enough to carry his offense. Next year Cechini will move ahead of him. Adding Tovar to the mix is just unnecessarily clouding the situation.
Agree James. In the long run having a prolific offense doesn’t guarantee you a WS. Timely hitting an above average defense up the middle and a solid pen will do the job more consistently. If the Met organization feels that Flores is not the answer (before giving him a full year at the position) then you have Collins tell the press that SS is going to be an open audition. It’s a typical Alderson move to deflect any criticism from the media for not having found a credible replacement for Reyes in how many years?
Flores isn’t Sandy’s boy so there appears to be very little support for him. Alderson reminds me of my dad when we used to take cross country trips across the country when I was a very young. We got lost all the time but my father would never admit to it. He would always tell us that he wanted to try a short cut to get somewhere. I just looked at my mom who was smiling knowing we were lost again.
I don’t buy the “not Sandy’s boy” argument. Look at this team: It is filled with Omar’s guys. Harvey, deGrom, Familia, Mejia, Niese, Lagares, Duda, Murphy, etc.
SA has shown no prejudice against players from the previous regimen. Five years into this thing, he’d be lost without them.
I wish you would remind those Met fans who feel Minaya left the team with an empty cupboard James. As I agree Alderson’s main goal was and still is to cut payroll whenever possible and help the Wilpons maintain control of their team. I do have a question for you James. How long do you give a player a chance to develop and see what he is capable of doing? If it’s Terry Collins it’s probably 2 weeks. Flores was asked last season to fill the position. And yet the Mets didn’t even ask him to play SS in winter ball! How is that considered to be a front office with a sound game plan for their future? Collins listens to what Alderson tells him to do? Really? Is that why they had the closed door meeting in order to get Flores off the bench after being recalled from AAA?
If it wasnt for Minaya the 2015 Mets would be a surefire 100 loss team. Five years, and still not one Alderson drafted player expected to make the major league team.
Yet somehow there are people who credit SA with “rebuilding” the farm. The one who has already produced Harvey, Murphy, Duda, Lagares, Parnell, Gee, Niese, Flores, Meija, and Familia. All acquired by SA’s predecessor, while the team actually won more than they lost, and free agents were signed (with corresponding forfeited draft picks.)
I will be thrilled if SA can just match that output.
And shocked.
Gus what does Wilpon’s friendship with Koufax have to do with Flores and The Moron?
Pete,
The Moron got the job mostly as a favor to Fred’s friend Sandy Koufax (once again it’s not what you know but who you know). At the time, he wasn’t offered anything by any of the other major league teams (not even an interview) and he wanted a gig. It was between him and Doug Melvin at the time (Oakland then hired Melvin, check their record these last four years). How he has kept the job, is something they don’t elaborate on. Mostly using the excuse that Alderson hasn’t given him a team worthy of winning, or a personal favorite, the players love him. Puke.
I’m curious about how Collins and Koufax know each other. You know I detest Collins and his lack of cojones to take any responsibility for the teams poor play. He never makes a mistake. He just doesn’t get it. I know he’s probably earning 250,000 a year. Why else keep his salary a secret? Just about all teams make known how much their managers make. Then again most teams are not embarrassed to publish it.
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/pitching-legend-sandy-koufax-brightens-mets-camp-addresses-bernie-madoff-works-pitchers-article-1.137198
Towards the bottom of the article it tells you that Koufax and Collins have been friends since 1982, when Collins was a minor leaguer in the Dodgers’ system. In the beginning it tells you that Fred Wilpon and Koufax have been friends for over sixty years, and since at the article’s writing Koufax was 74, since they were kids!
I don’t debate that Collins may be a nice guy that craps on youngsters maybe because he was a career minor leaguer, I don’t know what his motivation is, but as a manager… Don’t get me started.
Do you think Collins groveled and asked Koufax to help him out? After all he was out of baseball for what 10 years? With so many managerial changes year in and year out why is it no one ever bothered to track down Collins and offer him a job? Maybe he heard about the investment package the Wilpons and Koufax were involved in and wanted to get in on the action?
Another personal favorite:
http://metsmerizedonline.com/2013/08/mmo-fan-shot-ive-had-enough-of-collins.html/
Collins had a meltdown in his last job and the clubhouse turned on him. The same thing happened to Valentine in Boston two years ago. However, in baseball, forgiveness is slow. Ask Hal McRae, ask Wally Backman, or ask Tony Pena. Collins was already a minor league roving instructor on the Mets doing something, I’m sure, but it probably didn’t hurt to have Koufax put in a good word. I would’ve too if it could get me the job.
It infuriates me to think that just because Collins is a good guy (with friends in high places) we as fans have been stuck with him far too long. Koufax says he’s a nice guy. And? What the hell does that have to with managing? Koufax never said he was a good manager. Just a nice guy. Yes are very fortunate to have this nice guy who’s methods of managing are frustrating and outdated. It’s truly embarrassing. Gus I need a drink. It’s going to be a very long season.
Welcome to the Show!!!
Thanks Chris. While it may not be the greatest show on Earth it will certainly be entertaining and fall under the category of comedy/drama
Better yet maybe Koufax got Collins to invest his retirement plan with Madoff? And since we all now know how that turned out perhaps this was a way of paying him back?
LOL! The article says Koufax didn’t know anything about Madoff. This has strictly been a Ponsi scheme on Mets fans to get them to keep buying tickets by promising much, delivering little, and waiting for the opportunity to have 25 minimum wage players on the roster. An Alderson dream!
LOL back at you Gus. i don’t think the players association would approve. And of course I believe Koufax Really Didn’t Know What Was Going On! Madoff tried to tell him and Fred but they both ran out the door before he could finish! Plausible deniability. Very popular phrase these days in Queens. Ignorance is bliss! Just ask TC!
Haven’t we beat the shortstop question to death? Let’s just wait and see what unfolds instead of playing what ifs! If our hitting returns from third base and the outfield and our catcher and 1B continue to step up, the shortstop debacle won’t be such an issue. For now we need a bat everywhere to compete for a wild card spot, let alone to reach .500.
If you expect to compete for a WC spot, you need actual MLB players. Tejada may be hated by some, but he is a legitimate MLB middle infielder—he could come in handy if/when you need to make a substitution in game.
This is simply not a place for a “No Upside” guy who is topped out at AA. I don’t support their lack of an MLB Starting Shortstop….. Tovar would be a step down from what they have,
You don’t make subtractions or add questions when you want to win….I’d be pleased if they added an “answer”.
I’ve always rooted for Tejada but, there may be some truth to Reyes’ statement about a decreased work ethic. Flores supposedly has worked hard to improve. Let’s see if there’s any results. As far as Tovar, Reynolds and competition at the MLB, the competition at the MLB level should be greater. In no way should the decision be made without seeing the results.
This is going to be a tough year on young Mets. Alderson has shown that when players don’t perform, he makes a move. LGM!!!
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It’s tough on young players because the Mets manager doesn’t want to play them. He tells the press he wants to win as his excuse not to use them. Only with a closed door meeting with Alderson did TC actually use Flores after being recalled from Las Vegas last season. So how do you expect to see these players on the field when Collins has to ability to make the Mets sign a player like Bobby Abreu who had no business being on this ball club last season? Can’t wait to see who is going to be this years version of Abreu.
Pete, we have a completely different vision for how things work between SA and TC.
And btw, I think the emphasis on the “closed door” meeting is overly dramatic. Were they supposed to leave the door open to reporters? These are private meetings.
Since you asked, I’ll give you my take:
Based on many reports, SA and TC meet or have phone discussions on a daily basis. There’s an open line of communication between SA — who hired TC — and TC, who was hired by SA. There’s a clear chain of command here. It’s no mystery.
In those meetings, I am sure that SA values TC’s thoughts and input and decision-making ability. (We may wish it were not so, but that seems to be the case.) At the same time, SA is the boss here, earning at least 3-4 times the amount of TC. Sandy hired and extended TC, a man eternally grateful to wear the uniform. SA has gone on record in his belief that a manager is a middle manager, one who implements the vision from above. An office manager, but not the boss.
SA replaced LaRussa with Art Howe. Please, please let that sink in. SA likes his managers docile — and I don’t think there’s anybody in baseball who is more docile than Terry “How High Do You Want Me To Jump?” Collins.
Ultimately, SA is completely 100% responsible for the decisions made by Collins, and SA clearly has the authority to overrule him. You seem to agree with this, based on your comments about the closed-door meetings. The buck doesn’t stop at Terry Collins; he’s just a puppet on strings. Or as a friend of mine puts it, he’s SA’s shield. The more people blame TC, the farther away they are from the man truly responsible.
If you are critical of the lack of playing time for Flores last season, I agree with you. But rather than blame Collins — who is not a brilliant mind — the question should be: Why did Alderson allow it to go on for so long? The only answer I can come up with is that it’s because he agreed with it. Otherwise, he’d be derelict in his duties as GM.
The situation at SS is a direct result of the job the GM of the NY Mets has done at building a roster. Sandy is the architect; Terry is the guy putting up the sheet rock.
Do you have any theory then why Alderson allowed Collins to play Flores at 2B instead of SS the last 10 games or so of the season?
Semi-retired GM?
I had three that I posted, hours before we shut off lights. One has now been proven wrong.
The other two remain logical.
1. A dumb pull out all the stops attempt to come in second place.
2. The best way to sell Flores as a shortstop for 2015 was to get him away from the position before he exposed himself.
When I had Adam Rubin on my Podcast I asked him about TC, as unlike me he has access to the clubhouse. He all but said that Alderson writes up the daily lineup card.
Would you say that Alderson privately has little or no faith in Flores being the future SS of the Mets? Especially if he’s the mastermind doing the line ups? If so why not have that as the priority for the off season? Are we going to see a revolving door at SS between Flores, Tejada and someone from the minors? Wouldn’t it be prudent if a team wants a player to move to a new position to have him play that position in the off season? Did Alderson tell Flores in 2014 to play SS in Winter Ball? No.I would think it’s very frustrating for the fans and the players as well.
Brian do you have a theory why Flores played second base the last 10 games?
I believe Collins made the decision on what he felt gave the team the best chance to win.
So coming in second place was important to him? Even if it meant pushing back Flores’ progress? I was thinking maybe the last 10 meaningless games would of been a good opportunity to make those evaluations? Typical of Collins. Is it not? Same reason Abreu came back in September.
Last comment, Pete. You wrote:
“Collins has to ability to make the Mets sign a player like Bobby Abreu.”
I don’t for one second think that’s how it works. Did he have input? Certainly. Hudgens actually recommended the Mets take a look at Abreu based on their time together in winter ball. But it’s not TC’s decision. It’s almost crazy to think so.
I don’t think Sandy is a saint, but I have enough respect for him to think that he’d never work under such conditions where his hired underling was really calling the shots.
I don;t think for one minute that Collins is calling the shots. Alderson is the puppet master. But didn’t Abreu play for Collins before? It’s what Collins is comfortable with. By the way since the Mets were out of any playoff race why did the team bring back Abreu in September? Insane? Stupid? A waste? Just to give a nice guy a decent sendoff as he planned to retire? Where’s the practicality in that? Isn’t that the time you can utilize to evaluate your teams future by bringing up some of the youngsters? You’re building a team that can and will win consistently in the near future (we hope). It’s just one example. It’s like signing Rick Ankiel after the Astros dumped him. If the worse team in baseball feels you cannot play anymore what the hell is Alderson thinking? Worse yet when going hit less for a week Collins still inserts him in the line up!
I agree James. But if you’re building a contender that means you must allow the kids to play otherwise how else would you know what they are capable of. How does Sandy evaluate Flores’ ability to play SS as an every day MLB player when Collins sits him on the bench? It’s Collins who said he was here to win games. Translate sorry but we need to have veteran players like Abreu on the roster because that’s what I am more comfortable with. So the question is how can Sandy and Terry be consistently on the same page when SA is trying to rebuild through the draft and Collins wants to win now?
I know Collins deflects any criticism directed towards Sandy. He’s a punching bag Sandy uses to his advantage. Yes he’s today’s version of Art Howe. Just one more thought. I guess based on your perceptions of how Alderson likes his managers we will never see Backman in Queens.