Spring training is upon us, and barring any last minute additions, the Mets 26 player roster is starting to take shape. Once again, we approach the upcoming season with high hopes and low expectations. No one would have predicted a 101 win season back in 2022 but the Mets got there on the backs of their strong starting pitching that included a retread from Cleveland who started 29 games, a collection of free agents who started 30, 29, and 23 games, an often injured star who managed just 11 starts, and a collection of not ready for prime time players who collectively filled out the end of the rotation. They also had the preeminent closer who appeared in 61 games and finished with a 1.31 ERA to go with 32 saves. The hitters played to the 4th best OPS and led the league in hits, team batting average and getting hit by pitches. Ron Hunt would have been proud of that stat. They also managed to finish first in strikeouts, not such a great claim to fame.

2023 was a completely different story as the pitching fell apart early, and the 7-8-9-10 starters pressed into action didn’t show much until the last few months of the season. Several hitters played below their career averages and only an end of the season surge moved some of their statistics to a respectable level. Had the hitters not gone on vacation in the month of June, the Mets might have edged out the Florida Marlins for the last wildcard spot.

Every year I look for the Mets to get off to a strong start in spring training and hope that it conveys to a good regular season, even accepting that spring training games are meaningless since teams are experimenting with various fringe players trying to make the team. A prime example of one having nothing to do with the other would be the 2022 team that finished the grapefruit league with a 10-14 record but then went on to win 101 games in the regular season.

For comparative purposes, we will look at the 26-year period 1998-2023 and compare the spring training and regular season records for the Mets, Atlanta Braves, Philadelphia Phillies and Los Angeles Dodgers. The starting year was chosen based on my supposition that the Mets would have had some good spring training records heading into what turned out to be back to back playoff appearances in 1999 and 2000.
During these 26 years, the four teams finished spring training as follows:

Mets: 10 spring winning records; 13 losing records; three finishes at .500.
Braves: 12 winning records; 12 losing records; two finishes at .500.
Phillies: nine winning records; 16 losing records; one finish at .500.
Dodgers: 11 spring winning records; 13 losing records; two finishes at .500.

The following charts show the comparison between what these four teams did in spring training versus the regular season.

Mets Spring Spring Win Reg Reg Win Season
Year Wins Losses % Wins Loses % Finish
2023 10 14 0.417 75 87 0.463 4
2022 7 7 0.500 101 61 0.623 1
2021 11 11 0.500 77 85 0.475 3
2020 8 11 0.421 26 34 0.433 4
2019 13 16 0.448 86 76 0.531 3
2018 10 18 0.357 77 85 0.475 4
2017 15 17 0.469 70 92 0.432 4
2016 8 17 0.320 87 75 0.537 2
2015 19 12 0.613 90 72 0.556 1
2014 14 16 0.467 79 83 0.488 2
2013 15 15 0.500 74 88 0.457 3
2012 9 20 0.310 74 88 0.457 4
2011 17 15 0.531 77 85 0.475 4
2010 14 16 0.467 79 83 0.488 4
2009 18 15 0.545 70 92 0.432 4
2008 20 11 0.645 89 73 0.549 2
2007 12 21 0.364 88 74 0.543 2
2006 16 14 0.533 97 65 0.599 1
2005 17 11 0.607 83 79 0.512 4
2004 13 20 0.394 71 91 0.438 4
2003 16 14 0.533 66 95 0.410 5
2002 12 19 0.387 75 86 0.466 5
2001 18 10 0.643 82 80 0.506 3
2000 14 12 0.538 94 68 0.580 1
1999 15 16 0.484 97 66 0.595 2
1998 19 11 0.633 88 74 0.543 2
Totals 360 379 0.487 2072 2037 0.504

The Mets regular season record was only marginally better than their spring record and a number of years with poor spring trainings did not hinder their ability to do well once the season started. They managed to win 100 or more games only once.

Braves Spring Spring Win Reg Reg Win Season
Year Wins Losses % Wins Loses % Finish
2023 18 10 0.643 104 58 0.642 1
2022 8 7 0.533 101 61 0.623 1
2021 15 13 0.536 88 73 0.547 1
2020 9 12 0.429 35 25 0.583 1
2019 16 16 0.500 97 65 0.599 1
2018 13 18 0.419 90 72 0.556 1
2017 9 22 0.290 72 90 0.444 3
2016 6 20 0.231 68 93 0.422 5
2015 15 17 0.469 67 95 0.414 4
2014 18 10 0.643 79 83 0.488 2
2013 20 15 0.571 96 66 0.593 1
2012 10 18 0.357 94 68 0.580 2
2011 17 13 0.567 89 73 0.549 2
2010 17 12 0.586 91 71 0.562 2
2009 21 12 0.636 86 76 0.531 3
2008 15 15 0.500 72 90 0.444 4
2007 18 12 0.600 84 78 0.519 3
2006 11 18 0.379 79 83 0.488 3
2005 12 15 0.444 90 72 0.556 1
2004 14 17 0.452 96 66 0.593 1
2003 17 12 0.586 101 61 0.623 1
2002 15 14 0.517 101 59 0.631 1
2001 12 13 0.480 88 74 0.543 1
2000 14 17 0.452 95 67 0.586 1
1999 17 13 0.567 103 59 0.636 1
1998 13 17 0.433 106 56 0.654 1
Totals 370 378 0.495 2272 1834 0.553

While the Braves spring records were not far off from what the Mets accomplished, their regular seasons were much more successful. The also managed to win 100 or more games six times.

Philies Spring Spring Win Reg Reg Win Season
Year Wins Losses % Wins Loses % Finish
2023 16 15 0.516 90 72 0.556 2
2022 10 7 0.588 87 75 0.537 3
2021 12 15 0.444 82 80 0.506 2
2020 15 6 0.714 28 32 0.467 3
2019 14 14 0.500 81 81 0.500 4
2018 13 17 0.433 80 82 0.494 3
2017 14 17 0.452 66 96 0.407 5
2016 15 11 0.577 71 91 0.438 4
2015 14 17 0.452 63 99 0.389 5
2014 9 18 0.333 73 89 0.451 5
2013 16 17 0.485 43 89 0.326 4
2012 14 16 0.467 81 81 0.500 3
2011 21 14 0.600 102 60 0.630 1
2010 15 12 0.556 97 65 0.599 1
2009 13 19 0.406 93 69 0.574 1
2008 12 18 0.400 92 70 0.568 1
2007 19 11 0.633 89 73 0.549 2
2006 19 11 0.633 85 77 0.525 2
2005 11 18 0.379 88 74 0.543 2
2004 10 21 0.323 86 76 0.531 2
2003 10 17 0.370 86 76 0.531 3
2002 12 14 0.462 80 81 0.497 3
2001 12 14 0.462 86 76 0.531 2
2000 15 18 0.455 65 97 0.401 5
1999 14 15 0.483 77 85 0.475 3
1998 16 14 0.533 75 87 0.463 3
Totals 361 386 0.483 2046 2033 0.502

The Phillies had a slightly poorer overall spring training record than the Mets. During the regular season their mediocrity jumped out as the only won 13 more games than they lost over those 26 years. They also recorded 100 or more wins only once.

Dodgers Spring Spring Win Reg Reg Win Season
Year Wins Losses % Wins Loses % Finish
2023 14 13 0.519 100 62 0.617 1
2022 5 9 0.357 111 51 0.685 1
2021 13 11 0.542 106 56 0.654 1 Tie
2020 13 7 0.650 43 17 0.717 1
2019 14 15 0.483 106 56 0.654 1
2018 17 15 0.531 92 71 0.564 1
2017 18 17 0.514 104 58 0.642 1
2016 13 17 0.433 91 71 0.562 1
2015 16 11 0.593 92 70 0.568 1
2014 6 10 0.375 94 68 0.580 1
2013 13 20 0.394 92 70 0.568 1
2012 15 15 0.500 86 76 0.531 2
2011 14 21 0.400 82 79 0.509 3
2010 11 17 0.393 80 82 0.494 4
2009 15 22 0.405 95 67 0.586 1
2008 11 18 0.379 84 78 0.519 1
2007 17 16 0.515 82 80 0.506 4
2006 15 13 0.536 88 74 0.543 1
2005 13 15 0.464 71 91 0.438 4
2004 12 22 0.353 93 69 0.574 1
2003 15 15 0.500 85 77 0.525 2
2002 12 17 0.414 92 70 0.568 3
2001 18 13 0.581 86 76 0.531 3
2000 12 18 0.400 86 76 0.531 2
1999 21 9 0.700 95 67 0.586 1
1998 18 10 0.643 83 79 0.512 3
Totals 361 386 0.483 2319 1791 0.564

Like the Mets, Braves and Phillies, the Dodgers ended up with a sub .500 record over the 26 spring trainings. However, their regular season won-loss record very much echoed the perennial division champion Braves, and they did manage to win 100 or more game five times

The results reinforced my research that what happens in spring training has little bearing on the regular season. The Braves and Dodgers found a way to make the most of their situation when the regular season bell rang, and the Mets and Phillies, for the most part, did not.
The next chart shows the comparison between spring training and regular season records and then where each of the teams finished in the standings.

Spring Winning Losing 0.500   Regular Winning Losing 0.500 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th
Training Records Records Records   Season Records Records Records Place Place Place Place Place
                           
Mets 10 13 3   Mets 12 14 0 4 6 4 10 2
                           
Braves 12 12 2   Braves 20 6 0 15 4 4 2 1
                           
Phillies 9 16 1   Phillies 13 11 2 4 7 8 3 4
                           
Dodgers 11 13 2   Dodgers 24 3 0 16 3 4 3 0

While the Mets and Phillies each managed four first place finishes, the Braves and Dodgers finished first 15 and 16 times respectively.

Next came the search of the Internet to get a smarter perspective on the correlation between spring training and regular season records. What I learned from countless articles is that the spring training record has essentially no correlation to how the team will do in the regular season. While all teams tinker with their rosters in the spring, the really good teams (Braves, Dodgers and there are others) appear to be working on ways to improve their already strong and competitive teams, while the teams on the fringe (Mets, Phillies and there are others), are lucky just to field a competitive team when the season starts.

And one more tidbit of info to consider. During the 26 years span the Mets played in two world series (2000 and 2015), losing both. The Braves played in two world series (1999 and 2021) and split the pair. The Phillies played in three world series (2008, 2009 and 2022) winning one, and the Dodgers played in three world series (2017, 2018 and 2020) winning one. When all was said and done, the Mets were only one world series win behind these other teams.

Steve Cohen talks about the Mets organization being more like the Dodgers and I for one will be happy to tinker in the spring but them have regular season results like they do. There is much work to be done.

5 comments on “Does the spring training won-loss record mean anything?

  • Brian Joura

    I seem to recall that several years ago Name had a post that the overall ST records weren’t all that important except for one thing – you don’t want to have the worst record. But I can’t find that post of his.

    Here are the teams with the worst records in ST and what they did in the regular season:

    2023
    Grapefruit League – Marlins (84-87)
    Cactus League – A’s (50-112)

    2022
    Grapefruit – Nationals (55-107)
    Cactus – A’s (60-102)

    2021
    Grapefruit – Astros (95-67)
    Cactus – Reds (83-79)

    My view on these things is if they’re keeping score, I want my team to win. But I recognize that it’s much more important that players get enough reps and they come thru it healthy.

  • ChrisF

    I dont hold any value whatsoever to ST record. Any correlation is coincidental, not causal.

    You cant play games where significant innings are played by guys with numbers in the 80s and expect it to have any meaning whatsoever. Even worse two different guys with the same number in 80s no one has ever heard of!

    Pitchers need to go through their 30 fast balls, 30 sliders, thirty change ups etc for an outing. Catchers need to get working on building relationships. Hitters get their swings in, tinker with stances. I just cant see that as meaning anything com March 28th.

    As far as Im concerned, a team fully wins ST if they pack for home woth no injuries. Its all I care about.

  • Brian Joura

    OK, found the thing that I remembered. This is a part of what Name said:

    “But for the extreme low end, we do see some correlation, which matches the data you provided on worst teams. In that graph, no team that had under a 30% ST win% finished above .500 in the regular season.
    But if you look at the 30-35% win range, i see about a 50/50 split again.

    So i see 2 takeaways from this exercise. Don’t finish dead last. Also, finish with better than a 30% Spring Training win%”

    Poll: Adrian Gonzalez’ slow start

  • NYM6986

    We are all in agreement and I agree that if I am following my team play games I want them to win. And if you get out of spring with little to know injuries you are ahead of the game. Interesting that deGrom, Scherzer and now Verlander will not be ready to go. Anyone upset none of them are here?

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