The penalties have been handed down in the Astros’ sign stealing case and opinion is certainly mixed. Manager AJ Hinch and General Manager Jeff Luhnow were both suspended for one year by MLB and the Astros were fined $5 million and forced to surrender their next two first and second-round picks, whenever they may be. No players were penalized by Commissioner Rob Manfred, in part as an effort to get the entire story (players were granted immunity with truthful testimony) and part to avoid any drawn out litigation with the MLBPA.
There was one player who was specifically named in the report – new Mets manager Carlos Beltran. It’s hard to view this as anything but a warning to Beltran to walk the straight and narrow in his new job as manager. Since Hinch was punished for his not doing more to end the sign stealing (he did allegedly destroy a couple of TV monitors used in the operation) if the Mets were found to be guilty of any future sign stealing, you’d have to think that Beltran would receive an even stiffer penalty.
Many feel that the punishments weren’t strict enough. Those people are either upset that the players got off without any punishment or think that Astros owner Jim Crane shouldn’t have gotten off as easy as he did. While $5 million was the most that the team could be fined, the official report bent over backwards not to criticize Crane in any way, shape or form. And on top of that, some people wanted the Astros to have to vacate their 2017 World Series win.
That probably wasn’t a realistic outcome at all. They vacate wins and championships in collegiate sports but essentially that’s not done at the professional level. Those looking for that type of remedy will have to content themselves with the knowledge that fans will apply their own “asterisk” to Houston’s title, much like what they’ve done for roughly a century to the 1919 Reds, who won the World Series that the Black Sox threw.
Fans of one franchise have another reason for being disappointed in the penalty. The Braves received a penalty roughly equivalent in value to what the Astros just received for illegally funneling money to international free agents. Their argument is that the Astros, by cheating in actual MLB games, including playoffs and World Series, should have received a much harsher penalty than what the Braves did in signing amateur talent.
There’s certainly a logic to that argument.
It’s hard to know what would have risen to the level that would have satisfied Braves fans. What if Manfred had stripped the Astros of all first-round picks for the next decade? That might have done the trick but it’s likely that MLB viewed that as too harsh for Crane and the franchise. Manfred was trying to walk a fine line between sending out a harsh punishment and creating an enemy out of one of the owners. It’s my view that he tried too hard to avoid making an enemy out of Crane.
Meanwhile, the Red Sox cut ties with manager Alex Cora, who was a bench coach for the Astros in 2017 and was Boston’s manager in their championship season of 2018, which is also under scrutiny for stealing signs. Cora will likely receive a stricter punishment than the one-year ban that Hinch received. It’s not impossible that he will receive a lifetime ban. We should find out shortly.
Which brings us back to Beltran.
When the investigation first got underway back in November, Mets GM Brodie Van Wagenen issued a tone-deaf reply by saying, “At this point, I don’t see any reason why this is a Mets situation.” And at this point in time, there’s been no statement whatsoever by Beltran, Van Wagenen or anyone associated with the Mets. The longer the silence lasts, the worse this looks for the Mets. With MLB investigating the Red Sox – and perhaps other clubs, too – this isn’t going away any time soon.
As a player with the Mets, Beltran was never known for sweet-talking the press. Sending him out to address the media right now seems like a terrible idea. Likewise, neither Fred nor Jeff Wilpon has the market cornered when it comes to sincerity and likeability with the media. Which leaves it up to Van Wagenen.
The GM has experience in damage control and handling the press. But the question remains if he actually believes that his hiring of Beltran requires damage control. He certainly didn’t feel that way back in November.
Van Wagenen’s first trade ended up being a disaster. And now it looks like his first managerial hiring has some serious questions, too. At this point, there’s no reason that Van Wagenen has to cut ties with Beltran. But he has to acknowledge his hire’s role with the scandal in Houston. Seeing the penalty that Luhnow received, Van Wagenen has to state in no uncertain terms that neither Beltran nor the Mets will engage in this type of activity or there will be immediate repercussions from him.
The Mets need to take some public heat for a brief time. If Van Wagenen stands up and says for public consumption that what happened in Houston will not be tolerated in New York, it’s a story for a couple of days and then it’s over. But if all we get is silence or half-hearted acknowledgements, then this has the ability to take on a life of its own.
Getting some bad publicity for a day or two in January is a small price to pay. Now it’s just up to Van Wagenen to make sure that’s all there is.
This is certainly an interesting situation in unchartered waters because in actuality you have a roster of 25 players plus everyone else who played for Houston that year who you could make a case had cheated having the benefit of knowing what pitch was coming. While the architects of the cheating scandal have been both suspended from MLB and fired from the Astros organization, and Cora also just lost his Red Sox managers gig While waiting on what action MLB my take, it is unclear what further action can be taken as a practical resolution. If they were to suspend Beltran as a player on the team, they would also have to suspend Altuve, Verlander, Springer, Keuchel, Bregman, and even a host of players who only came up for a handful of games. Perhaps the penalty should have been to strip the Astros of their title and require repayment from all of the players of their world series winnings.
I would imagine that the next instance of electronically sign stealing by any major-league team will be met with a much more severe penalty.
It’s less than a month until spring training starts and I’m ready to see what our team can do.
I don’t think he should have been hired with this cloud hanging over his head.
Disclaimer: I am not an apologist for Beltran, BVW, and The Wilpon(s) and any of their decisions. But, given the fact that Beltran was a member of the ‘Stros for only one year (2017), I find it unlikely that he played anything other than a minor role in orchestrating and implementing this dishonorable machinery. Again, this does not exonerate him, but it means he deserves at least some presumption of not being more guilty than Adolf Hitler while possessed by the demon Pazuzu
(I admit a certain predilection for hyperbole, but just this morning I read a post at this here blog which said that, in essence, Beltran is an ideal choice to be Cano’s mgr. since both are cheaters)
I think it’s wishful thinking that Beltran’s role was a minor one. If that was the case, why was he the only player mentioned in Manfred’s report?
The HoF bound guy in his last season without a WS ring? I think it’s comical to assume he played a minor role. If the young guys see Beltran treat the situation as alright then they follow along. This isn’t limited to baseball either, apply this in almost any career field using an accomplished senior person.
My post is comical? Outrageous I tell you!
Well, anyway it’s good this isn’t YouTube else I would have been called anything from stupid to someone who does illegal things in barnyards
Moving forward, what about alFonzo or Backman?
P.s. posting by phone sux.
This has gotta be a new record even for the Mets: a manager loses all credibility even before he loses a game.
This all comes back to Jeffy. An incompetent dolt himself, he hires an agent to play GM. This Agent-turned-GM has a fetish for bringing back his old clients (Cano, Lowrie and Wacha), and fails in his due diligence to completely vet his first managerial choice. Now, what was a shaky hire to begin with has all of the earmarks of a total disaster, right from the get-go.
I am hoping against hope that the silence on this issue means they are working out some sort of settlement and that Beltran will step down. Bring back Terry Collins for one year. He knows about 2/3 of the roster and most likely isn’t looking for his next managerial job, so he isn’t likely to try to over-achieve. Remember this worked out OK in Miami several years ago with Jack McKeon.
Hopefully, come the next offseason, Cohen has more say and can dump BVW and bring in a qualified GM, who can in turn pick a qualified manager.
I think Chris Carlin read this post.
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If they decide to cut ties with Beltran, I hope to the heavens they bring in just about anyone besides TC. Been there, done that, don’t want to do it again.
Perez was one of the finalists and he hasn’t been scooped up by anyone. Pick him.
It is way too convenient, and full denial, to envision that Beltran was not a key player, if not *the* key player in this disgraceful episode in baseball history.
At the outset, its worth noting that the penalties are harsher than those given for domestic violence violations. Perhaps we all have some priority issues…
Back to the matter at hand. Beltran was brought in as a veteran anchor, and as we know, conveniently a good friend of Cora. Both are the same age and both played for the Mets at the same time in the past. If this was Cora acting alone, which we know from the report (everyone should read it – easy to find and download the PDF) did not happen, the fact that Beltran is a friend of Cora, of the same age, and with interests in being a manager means they would have been talking this out.
From the report, we learn this came from the players. The most likely outcome is that this was a strategy hatched by Beltran (perhaps along with Cora) who then talked with teammates, who then brought to Cora (and likely Hinch). Although it looks low level with the banging on the trash can, the coordination is extraordinary and shows that someone had given this thought to get the feed organized to the clubhouse. Furthermore, Beltran himself said in an interview with Joel Sherman, that he was in charge of meeting with younger players to study the “opposite” team by computer. Beltran is up to his eyeballs in this, and along with Cora, the most likely ringleader of this gang.
We should look more closely at the Mets relationship with the Houston overlord staff. In the early stages of the managerial search, there was some talk about the Mets seeing about stealing AJ Hinch. Huh? Well it turns out Hinch and BVW are besties from their college daya at Stanford. In fact, Hinch said BVW was really a best friend.
Fact: Hinch knew.
Fact: Cora knew and was a ringleader
Fact: Cora and Beltran are friends, and Beltran was named in the report.
Fact: BVW and Hinch are best friends
How much did the Mets know in hiring Beltran? Desperate for wins, and thrilled with Beltran’s pitch reading skills, which BVW praised.
I read an interesting article by Ken Davidoff today who recalled a question he asked of Cora in London at the start of the season, after the Yankees destroyed the Red Sox. In his reply to Davidoff about the Yankees prolific hitting, he mentioned how lucky the Yankees were to have Beltran on their FO, then winked at Beltran off to the side – this is easily findable on line. Why would Cora say and do that?
I would not go as far as saying this was a completely coordinated hire, but there is a lot more than simple coincidence.
We know that all the people named in the Commissioners report have been fired, except 1. Even with Cora fired, he will still be getting MLB reprimands.
The Mets are in a quandary. While not specifically inviting this disaster to their shores, it nevertheless is here. The silence from ownership and BVW is deafening, with ownership of the Astros and Red Sox already not prepared to spill more blood than what has happened. Yet the Mets sit idly by, looking worse by the moment, undercutting Beltran if he stays on, and showing the typical reflection of self-immolation.
If the Mets do poor, Beltran will be battered by comments that he can only do well cheating. If the Mets do well, they will be hounded for what kind of new fangled cheating are they doing. Beltran will be in front of the press every day. This is not going away.
We know that in an interview with Sherman after The Athletic broke the story, Beltran made it clear he knew nothing about the scheme. He was just studying video on the computer. That is a lie. Did he tell the same thing to the Mets? What did Hinch tell BVW? Surely as a best friend and looking to hire Beltran that would have been a phone call that happened. Could Hinch say: Beltran is clean as a whistle, a veritable pitch-tipping whisperer by looking at video, knowing full well he was an architect of a major scandal? Would you expose your best friend to the potential outcomes?
The Mets need to fire Beltran for cause right now. Manfred made it clear that Beltran is a major player in this cheating scandal. There can be no decent reason to “stand by your man” when this person has done nothing so far for the team. If the FO and ownership were duped by Beltran, they should be furious for being lied to. How on Earth could they have a functional relationship knowing your star manager lied to you about cheating. If the Mets stand with Beltran, my deepest fear is that ownership and the FO know more than they are saying, and Beltran could easily disclose that.
Only in Queens could a scandal not part of a team cause this much of a disaster.
Im with Brian. Fire Beltran now. Call Eduardo tonight. He has impeccable creds – pay him an embarrassment bonus, and get him in St Lucie.
For the record, I think firing Beltran is a reasonable move and if it happens, I won’t shed a tear.
But I don’t believe it has to happen. I think if the Mets make a strong statement on how cheating/sign stealing won’t be tolerated that they can survive the short-term bad publicity.
Whatever they choose to do, I hope they do it decisively.
1. Beltran was given immunity in return for his testimony. He may have been a ringleader, but at the time it was illegal to have a tv screen in the dugout but just outside of it was still permissible as per the letter of the law. Once the September letter came out, we know that they moved the tv but no one knows who was still benefitting.
2. Joel Sherman is acting like he had a right to know the truth in October. Screw you Joel, you find out when everyone else does. What did he expect Beltrán to say? If Beltrán says no comment, he’s hiding something. If Beltrán says the commissioner’s office has put a gag on us, then Sherman starts pressing because where there’s smoke, there’s fire. So, Beltran unequivocally denied it until it was time to find out what comes out.
3. Is it legal for the Mets to deny Beltran this job even though he was given immunity? We know all players knew, so why is Beltran the only player punished? Cora was axed not so much for what came out in Houston, but what will come out this week regarding Boston. Boston is hoping for leniency by taking the high road, but, they were cheating too and the Boston side of this will be coming out this week.
Back to Beltran, if the Mets believe this guy will be a good manager, like Brian said, just make a statement to ensure the world that this won’t be tolerated in New York. Tell the world that Beltran was trying to push the envelope to win a World Series but he feels the guilt of cheating and won’t let his name be associated with such acts again. And move on.
Gus. Beltran is a cheater. He lied about it until he was caught. He has absolutely zero credibility, and would be a lousy leader for young players, who in Houston, he did not use his weighty status to protect. He sold out himself, his teammates, and his management team. He can’t be fired fast enough.
1. The sign stealing with cameras was illegal. He knew it. Cora knew it. Hinch knew it. He and Cora designed a scheme to cheat. Then he lied about cheating.
2. Sherman’s job as a reporter is to ask questions. Beltran’s job is to handle media. When you are cheating *and* lying about cheating every answer will be shady unless he said: I’m a cheater, which is who he is. Period. It’s Sherman’s job to do exactly what he did. Long live the 4th estate.
3. Just because he was given immunity does not mean he can escape action. What if when he interviewed he told the Mets : I did not cheat. I did nothing wrong by the letter of MLB law. The problem is that he lied in the interview process. That is easily just cause. Furthermore he was named specifically in the report, meaning he was at the center of the corruption.
Fire Beltran, the lying cheater, now. Bring in a quality person.
I get you, but supposedly with four interviews, it was never brought up! If he lied during the interview, he deserves to be terminated. But, if he was never asked? As for Sherman, what did he expect Beltran to say? Let’s be adults: no one admits to putting their hand in the cookie jar until faced with the evidence.
I can see both sides, firing him and not. He cheated, but was given immunity. But, I can see the future disgrace he will always bring upon himself and the Mets. Does this mean he is forever ineligible to be a manager? When someone pays their debt, can they be released from scorn? When will Beltran be eligible to lead a team and admit he learned his lesson? Why didn’t they just hire Girardi?
Or the Mets knew about the cheating and either assumed or kept their fingers crossed that this would never reach the level that it has. This is a bad job by BVW to hire Beltran. It was a bad job by Jeffy to hire BVW.
I get the reluctance to hire Terry Collins again, I really do. But to bring in EP or some other rookie manager this close to ST is not realistic IMO. It would only be for one year. I would even be OK with bringing the heir apparent in as a bench coach/eye in the sky of sorts, all 100% transparent.
But this is the Wilpons so this will be fcuked up somehow.
Dan, BVW had to know. Everyone in the world knew there would be an investigation after the season. It was more convenient to not ask and thus plead ignorance later, than to know and have to look the other way or just not hire Beltrán. But like the Cano trade, it’s done.
Ironically, I like several of the things BVW has done and am planning on comparing him to Andrew Friedman in my next article. However, when he screws up, he doesn’t play around.
I get your logic about TC, but I’d rather move passed that and let Muellens be an interim manager for one year if Beltrán has to /should sit. This happened in other sports and managers are replaced for a variety of reasons with a bench guy that doesn’t have experience. As I asked Chris, how long does Beltrán have to sit out to pay his debt to baseball fandom?
If you have to fire him to please the masses, go get Mike Scioscia.
Where there is smoke, there is fire. Beltran got caught with his hand in the cookie jar. He became a snitch to save his own hide.
If the Mets keep him, he will draw negative attention. Just imagine in an important game in Philly. The fans start banging on garbage cans.
It’s bad for the team to have a cheater leading it.
I think he needs to go.
Now this, from Rising Apple:
“Current player Logan Morrison has come out saying that the New York Yankees and Los Angeles Dodgers also had similar systems. I am sure more players will implicate more teams as we move toward the future. There is just too much technology around to not try to do this.“
It was kind of hard to believe that other teams didn’t try this at all. The Astros fired Hinch and Luhnow as a save face. The Red Sox fired Cora to be proactive and lessen the punishment that they know they deserve. The Mets are choir boys, we know this. I would not fire Beltran, but rather let MLB police it as it didn’t happen on your team and is not your problem. Put out a strong statement, and move on.
Yup. And we were all blaming the ball for all the HR too. The Met problem right now not as clear cut as it looks. Yup, Carlos was a main participant in a cheating scheme, it’s pretty clear. How widespread it is in baseball is an issue. Maybe the Astros were retaliating against other clubs with similar nonsense. I did prefer Girardi at the time, but obviously not for this reason. Geez Louise.
Beltran should be fired. He initially denied wrongdoing. When he was hired by the Mets it was said that he had an attribute to read pitchers. It is obvious that is subject came up his interviews. He mislead the Mets with his answer. The Mets would not have hired if he said that he knew how cheat.
Its important to separate what the Astros did versus what “other teams did”. Other teams are not presently listed in *this* action. That does not mean other scandals with other teams may surface. It also does not provide “cover” for this scandal. The individuals and teams are named here for specific actions, and that is all that can be judged because that is all the investigation was limited to.
“Other teams are doing it” may be reality, but it is not a reason to be excused. Tell that to the officer while you are driving 90 in a 65 zone…but officer, *everyone* was driving 90…let me tell ya, the officer will look at you and say, well chief, I had my radar gun on you. Take that to court and say to the judge everyone was doing it…and the judge will say, do you see “everyone” in this court? No. Here’s your 1500$ fine and points.
Beltran no longer has credibility or the capacity to lead. Every action will be filtered through him as a cheater. Every presser will be questioned as to if he is lying or not. If at any point in the time from the interview to the the investigation release Beltran told the Mets he did not cheat, then how can the FO ever trust any conversation?
Fact. He, along with friend-age peer-bench coach Alex Cora cooked up an illegal cheating scandal.
Fact. He lied in public about this.
Fact. Beltran is a cheater and liar.
Agree! And so do the Mets, who let Beltran go today! Please, don’t put Terry Collins in as temporary manager though. Maybe Perez?
Its one of the rare times the Mets have actually made a move on genuine integrity and not fan appeasement.
Good for the front office and the Wilpons.
Chris
I’m not sure.
I want to think it is but I wonder if the Mets knew Beltran was the ring leader and had a type of “moral clause” which allowed them to bail out.
He had 3 year deal.
Otherwise no way Wilpons we’re going to pay 3 managers’ salaries this year.
Swarmy original statement about Beltran ‘being on a different team theme continues from BVW:
Brodie Van Wagenen said that Jessica Mendoza was speaking as an ESPN analyst and not as a member of the Mets organization when she called out Mike Fiers today.
This is going to be really interesting to see which directions the Mets go in searching for their new manager. I think they made the right decision.
The other two finalists were Eduardo Perez and Derek Shelton. Shelton is off the board. So, will it be Perez ? or will it be an agent that worked with BVW ?
What a mess, huh.
https://www.sny.tv/mets/news/carlos-beltrans-exit-is-a-shame-that-mets-fans-dont-deserve/312455170
I was shocked about this article. No one disputes that Carlos Beltran was a great player. But the idea that it was some foregone conclusion that he was going to be a great manager is ridiculous.
And that it’s somehow a shame that he isn’t going to get to prove how wonderful he was going to be? It would have been a shame if something he was innocent of kept him from being a manager. But when it was his own doing, and his specific lying about what he did, that’s not a shame. That’s suffering the consequences of your actions.
I agree with you 100%. BVW has an affinity for cheaters. First Cano and now Beltran.
Poor Beltran, he shot himself in the foot. I had to laugh when I read Beltrans statement. “This is not who I am, blah blah blah” Hey Carlos, you were a ringleader and you kept doing it. You are only remorseful because you got caught. And if you didnt get caught and exposed, you would probably be doing it this season in Queens.
+1
And it sure would be nice if someone held BVW accountable here. Someone should ask him how he could have been so totally wrong in his initial managerial hire and then doubled down on it back in November when he claimed this wasn’t a Mets issue. Hey Brodie, here’s a hint for you — it was always a Mets issue.
Brian, well said. I now think BVW is on a short leash when ownership shifts. He keeps letting his ego get in the way and desperately wants to leave his mark. This is why strong willed, experienced managers like Girardi and Showalter never had a real shot. My guess is he’ll turn to Perez or Rojas now.
Brian,
I definitely see this as a shame. I don’t know Beltran, but by all accounts, prior to this, he had a solid reputation and has done many good things. Good people often do bad things, and the consequences can range from none to disproportionately severe. He is of course responsible, he has no one to blame but himself, and it strikes me that he knows it too. Life will go on, as there are much bigger problems in the world, but it is a bad day for him, the Mets, and baseball.
As for Mr. Brodie, man, when he blow it he really blows it. I get their approach, but it was a major miss. I preferred Girardi, and certainly not a guy with no managerial experience, but was certainly willing to give Beltran the benefit of doubt. This is a huge week now, with three teams scrambling for a manager. I don’t know what they are thinking, but it better be good. I’m hearing Rojas, who I don’t know, but how can you throw a guy into this spot last minute, with no big league experience, never having played in the big leagues, and with a staff already in place? This is also no time for short arms and deep pockets. They need a great hire here.
Beltran was one of my favorite players ever as a Met.
It may be nothing more than splitting hairs but I simply cannot categorize this as a shame. It may be tragic, it certainly is a stain on both the game and Beltran but this is something that Beltran needs only to look in the mirror to assign blame.
I’ll save calling something a shame when something bad happens to someone through no fault of his own.
+1