R.A. Dickey takes the mound tonight in search of Win #16 as the Mets take on the Rockies. Scheduled start is 7:1
Hi Brian
Hey Metsense
I really don’t understand the Rockie 4 man rotation
Early lead, looks good
Early leads means they actually have a chance to win. And yea, that 4-man 75 pitch limit is just absurd
I can’t even fathom the reasoning
And Dickey has his best chance to no-hit or be perfect tonight. These are a bunch of Rockie no-names
I think that their thinking is that because they have only 75 it will get the pitchers to be
“more efficient”
That would be great. Cross your fingers
More efficient? Ha, not the way they miss the zone
That’s their thinking. But all their pitchers are youngsters who don’t have great control, so that’s why it’s not working
I mean, if you had a rotation full of Maddux’s, it would probably work great
Baseball used to be played with a 4 man rotation into the early sixties
That’s when “athletes” didn’t exist
Brian Joura
August 20, 2012 – 7:44 pm
They had 4-man rotation in the 70s
A fifth starter would be used if there wasn’t an off day, or else he would be skipped
Brian Joura
August 20, 2012 – 7:45 pm
I’m encouraged that the Rockies are trying something different. Probably not the way that I would go about it but if ever there was a time to experiment, the 2012 Rockies would be it.
With all the conditioning and better understanding of the game, it can only trend to more men in the rotation and not less
Brian Joura
August 20, 2012 – 7:46 pm
And I think the rationale for the 75-80 pitch count is to encourage their pitchers to throw strikes.
I hope the Mets some day end up with 5 starters with 5 caddy relievers and 2 closer types and stop this LaRusso ball
Well, White is already at 50 pitches and not even 2 innings yet…
and Dickey has used up like 10 of those pitches
Brian Joura
August 20, 2012 – 7:47 pm
Professional sports are nothing if not copycats. Once someone tries something and has success with it, more teams will think it’s okay to try. You need to look no further than all of the shifts we are seeing different teams use this year. The Blue Jays and Rays had success shifting a lot so more and more teams do it.
More data and video available and quicker and better way to analyse it
Pro sports are nothing more than businesses. People will try whatever they can to get the best product because winning is what interests the fan
Brian Joura
August 20, 2012 – 7:49 pm
At some point, a team is going to have a veteran pitcher that they figure does better with extra rest and they end up pitching him once a week. I thought Pedro Martinez would have been an excellent choice for this role. Pitch him every Sunday and do your best to keep your other four guys on a regular rotation.
Brian Joura
August 20, 2012 – 7:50 pm
Maybe that’s what’s best for Johan at this point.
The Met 6 man rotation makes sense with the shoulder injuries, Harvey’s inning limit and Nieses history
I think not. Just send him home and have him rest up for the next season.
And pitchers probably won’t consent to that 1-week a start thing, they would dramatically decrease their value and everyone wants to get as much money as possible
Brian Joura
August 20, 2012 – 7:52 pm
Johan’s first start back he pretty much got hit right away. Last time it was the fourth inning when he fell apart. I think he’s earned at least another start.
Limit Johan’s pitches and see what happens from there
I know he fell apart in the 4th, but i could easily tell he wasn’t right. He used 50 pitches to throw 3 perfect innings, which means he was spending nearly 6 pitches per batter, meaning he wasn’t fooling many hitters
****, i bet that’s the only hit of the night
Brian Joura
August 20, 2012 – 7:54 pm
I love watching Dickey’s pitches on the super slo-mo
Brian Joura
August 20, 2012 – 7:58 pm
I bet this kid is better than Joe Buck.
Brian Joura
August 20, 2012 – 8:02 pm
So close – almost three years in a row with a HR for the kid broadcaster. About a step and a half in front of the wall in CF by Wright.
*** dammit ike
good points darling, what the rockies doing are ridiculous
omg he’s at 76 pitches!
Brian Joura
August 20, 2012 – 8:20 pm
In May the Rockies were 10-18. In June they were 9-18. In July they were 7-17. This month they’re 9-9.
9-13 when the mets are done with them
Brian Joura
August 20, 2012 – 8:22 pm
I just hate the mindset that you have to keep doing things the same way they’re being done by everyone else. I applaud the Rockies for trying something different, even if it’s not what I would do.
But you don’t do change simply for change. And what they have concocted here is just simply ridiculous. A 6-man rotation is much more rational than 4-man 75 pitch limit.
If they want to do something different. Tell all your pitchers to be knuckleballers!
Brian Joura
August 20, 2012 – 8:24 pm
A six-man rotation makes sense for the Mets right now because they have six guys worth starting. The Rockies don’t have six guys worth starting. They probably don’t have four guys worth starting.
Brian Joura
August 20, 2012 – 8:25 pm
If I was running a team I’d certainly be looking for guys to convert into knuckleball pitchers.
if i was pitcher there, i’d be absolute hate what they are doing. For starters, if i get traded/leave, i wouldn’t be prepared because of this ridiculous 75 pitch limit
And if i’m a young kid, they’re stalling my development
Brian Joura
August 20, 2012 – 8:27 pm
I don’t agree with those statements. If a pitcher gets to throw every four days – that’s 40 starts in a season. The extra development comes with the extra starts.
I disagree with that as well. Most of the development comes in the latter stages when you’re getting tired and don’t have your best stuff. Your goal as a starter is to go as deep as you can each time you go out there.
Otherwise, like Darling said, you’re grooming him to be a long man
Brian Joura
August 20, 2012 – 8:30 pm
And that’s the goal here too. The Rockies are trying to teach their pitchers to throw more strikes. The goal is still to go as deep as possible.
Darn. Well, at least they have 2 more runs to work with.
Brian Joura
August 20, 2012 – 8:32 pm
They want them to throw 75 pitches in six innings. Not four.
That’s unrealistic. Even for 6 perfect innings, you have to average 4.16 pitches per batter to stay under 75.
Or in other words, 12.5 pitcher per inning
And the lowest pitches/inning this year is 14.02 by Bartolo Colon
Dickey is 3rd with 14.42
Brian Joura
August 20, 2012 – 8:40 pm
Leo Mazzone said when he was the pitching coach for the Braves that his goal was 12 pitches per inning.
goal implies best possible scenerio, which means most of the time you won’t get that result
Brian Joura
August 20, 2012 – 8:41 pm
And those are averages. Obviously no one is going to throw 75 pitches in six innings every time out. But it’s something to work towards.
nice job? baxter
I guess we have to root for the nats now
Brian Joura
August 20, 2012 – 8:46 pm
Unless there are playoff implications, I always root against the Braves regardless of who they play. And the fact that Davey Johnson is the manager for Washington makes them that much easier to root for.
Brian Joura
August 20, 2012 – 8:47 pm
Did you see Dickey’s pitch count?
i missed it but i’ll check
he’s at 74 pitches
Brian Joura
August 20, 2012 – 8:49 pm
6 IP, 0 BB
I know what point you’re trying to make. But he’s an ace and you generally don’t have more than 1-2 of these guys on your staff. Can’t expect to get 4 guys like him
Brian Joura
August 20, 2012 – 8:51 pm
So if it’s harder to find good pitchers, shouldn’t you be looking to maximize the starts of your best ones? That’s why I like their move to a 4-man rotation.
I agree with that statement. So i guess the thing i really don’t like is the 75 pitch limit
Brian Joura
August 20, 2012 – 8:53 pm
But it’s a drastic change for guys who are used to going on a five-man. It’s an attempt to balance the workload. Just because it’s what they’re doing now doesn’t mean that’s what they’ll do in 2013 when everyone has had half a season and all offseason to adjust to the new routine.
Let’s say you average 15 pitches an inning. That’s 75 for 5 innings and 105 for 7 innings. Over a 20-game stretch: In a 4-man rotation, everyone gets 5 starts, in a 5-man, it’s 4 starts. For the 4-man, It’s 5 * 5 = 25 IP. For the 5 man it’s 4 *7 = 28 IP. That’s why i think it’s absurd to go 4-man 75 pitches
Look at those ugly ERA’s
Brian Joura
August 20, 2012 – 8:59 pm
But that’s what they are doing this year to try to ease the load on the SP. Everything I’ve heard suggests that they are committed to doing this next year. If at this point next year they have all four guys in their rotation still stuck at 75 – then I’ll agree with you. But I think it’s a defensible thing to do during a mid-season transition.
Brian Joura
August 20, 2012 – 9:00 pm
Look at the ERAs before they went to the 4-man
So you think they will actually stick with it through next year?
I find it hard to believe that they will risk a whole season to try it.
Brian Joura
August 20, 2012 – 9:02 pm
I think right now that’s the plan. Of course it remains to be seen if they will be able to withstand the criticism they get from outside sources.
Brian Joura
August 20, 2012 – 9:03 pm
But the Rockies have never had a good pitching staff. It’s such a hitter-friendly place that chews up pitchers that they have to try something different.
Them having a bad pitching staff more has to do with the fact that they have mediocre pitchers rather than the ballpark
Brian Joura
August 20, 2012 – 9:06 pm
I agree they don’t have good pitchers. But you just can’t dismiss the ballpark in all of this. It’s what’s kept them from having a good pitching staff for 20 years now.
Still. I would be rather focusing on finding good talent. Rangers had this problem a couple of years ago and look at them now
Brian Joura
August 20, 2012 – 9:13 pm
Friedrich, White and Pomeranz were all first-round picks.
which is why they shouldn’t mess with this because they actually have some respected prospects they could build around
Would you keep Dickey in?
Brian Joura
August 20, 2012 – 9:18 pm
Nine of their first 10 years in existence, the Rockies took a pitcher with their top draft pick. They’ve been focusing on drafting and developing pitchers their entire existence and they have yet to have a good pitching staff.
Brian Joura
August 20, 2012 – 9:19 pm
Dickey had a rough inning last time. I could see the argument for taking him out. But I think I’d leave him in.
you said the Mets were 1-7 when they left 4 or less men on base? Right now they are at 4 so it might be better for torres to get left on
Brian Joura
August 20, 2012 – 9:22 pm
Has there been a GDP yet tonight?
Surpringly, no!
who’s our emergency catcher?
Brian Joura
August 20, 2012 – 9:24 pm
That 1-7 mark is since the All-Star break.
Brian Joura
August 20, 2012 – 9:24 pm
Baxter?
Brian Joura
August 20, 2012 – 9:25 pm
Cedeno?
Brian Joura
August 20, 2012 – 9:25 pm
Turner?
Brian Joura
August 20, 2012 – 9:25 pm
I have no idea. Where’s Vinny Rottino when you need him?
I vote Franky frank
That way he can see how real pitchers pitch
Brian Joura
August 20, 2012 – 9:26 pm
I have my doubts if he could assume the catcher’s crouch.
Well, as long as we keep them to 3 runs or less, i know we have a Excellent chance to win
Brian Joura
August 20, 2012 – 9:27 pm
I can’t get over that stat. It’s mind boggling to me.
it’s hard to explain too
Brian Joura
August 20, 2012 – 9:28 pm
Well the first thing that jumps out is it means the bullpen likely hasn’t blown things up like they’re capable of…
well, games that are blown up by the bullpen aren’t included in that stat
Brian Joura
August 20, 2012 – 9:29 pm
exactly
The only thing i can think of is that we always get timely hitting when we have good pitching
Brian Joura
August 20, 2012 – 9:30 pm
Not yet for tonight, though
Brian Joura
August 20, 2012 – 9:30 pm
Back in a few minutes
not a good job by edgin
wtf. 2 outs no one on why don’t let edgin finish!
What a disgraceful team.Colorado stinks,their bullpen stink.
TC. Is an idiot.
Worst loss of the year?
loss? it isn’t even over yet. Plus, they have only given up 2 runs so far
I have no confidence they can score a run.
didn’t you read brian’s article. 42-4 when limiting opponents to 3 runs or less
Brian Joura
August 20, 2012 – 9:45 pm
Yeah but one of those losses just happened – the 3-0 loss to the Reds when they scored three runs in the bottom of the ninth.
Mets make this look like agreat bullpen.
Moscoso?Friggin kidding me??
so possibly 42-3, and then 0-2?
and there’s part 1 of our timely hitting
Brian Joura
August 20, 2012 – 9:46 pm
I think 41-3 and then 1-2. They had the 2-0 win over Washington on Saturday.
i think HR here
Another reason starting Hairston is bad,no rh power on the bench other than Shoppach.
Ike against lefty??
i think HR here
Good morning,good afternoon,good night.
Blown away.
Brian Joura
August 20, 2012 – 9:50 pm
Ike, you’re supposed to take at 0-2!
That pitching coach scared Brothers
Ike can only hit a lh mistake.
TC brings out Bay,I’ll throw something.
Looks like we’ll see JV
this is his forte
Game here,I think.
With who’s up in the ninth.
If whoever comes up makes an out, it will be 7-8-9
i think walk here
JV ,no.
Why did he slide!
Game.
Over.
When will players realize running through is the fastest way!
Never?
Brian Joura
August 20, 2012 – 10:01 pm
Nice play at 1B by Colvin there, who’s really an OF, I think.
looking at the replay he slowed a lot by sliding
Seriously,this Met team is in complete collapse offensively.
Horrible.
Almost unwatchable.
I mean,this is the Rockies!
The Rockies are awful,we are now worse?
we still have 1 inning left
That scared me
Brian Joura
August 20, 2012 – 10:08 pm
Are we setting up for a Jason Bay walk-off HR
you would think this would be the perfect win for the Mets. They scored first. Pitching has only given up 2 runs…
who’s the closer for rockies?
Brian Joura
August 20, 2012 – 10:09 pm
Rafael Betancourt, if he’s healthy
well, if ramon gives up a run, we’ve lost for sure
.209 hitter,can’t get him.
This will be the worst loss of the season.
worst? i don’t think so.
there have been plenty worst ones. Such as the 3 blown save game in Washington
Turner should have never been ph for Dickey.
Dicket stays in they maybe win 2-1 or are tied 1-1 still.
That third run was so huge.
**** Rauch.
This guy kills right handers and we have no leftie bats.
Be nice to have lucas Duda right now.
only getting 1 run off rockies pitching is kinda embarrasing
we have life!\
Need areal double now!
that was low
oh no
Bad loss,another bad loss at home.
ugh, 10 LOB. Continues to get worse
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