Minor moves. Major problem.
That sentiment is essentially what the Mets hinted towards their fans this week when they demoted Ike Davis, Mike Baxter and Robert Carson to Las Vegas while designating Rick Ankiel for assignment.
The constant underperforming and lackluster baseball finally caught the wrath of GM Sandy Alderson. No more will there be any coddling or nurturing of their underachieving players. It’s all about accountability now. Perhaps it’s a day late and dollar short, but better late than never I guess.
Sooner or later, it’s all going to boil down to wins and losses. That said, it’s high time Alderson makes his first big splash as GM of the Mets and swing a blockbuster deal for a potent bat—ideally one you can plug right away in the outfield.
Sure, they say pitching wins championships—and that is true—but for this franchise to go anywhere they need to trade from a position of strength (a surplus of quality young pitching) to bolster their anemic and lifeless offense—an offense that has no real ready-made prospects waiting in the wings either.
The only pitcher on the Mets who is untouchable, of course, is Matt Harvey. But after that, no one is unattainable and the list of candidates who could be moved includes—but is not limited to—Jonathon Niese, Zack Wheeler, Noah Syndergaard, Michael Fulmer and Rafael Montero.
You package one or two of those pitchers along with, perhaps a, Travis d’Arnaud and maybe you can legitimately bring in a Carlos Gonzalez, Giancarlo Stanton or Alex Rios.
While it was blasphemous to think of such a trade prior to the season, certain circumstances (seriously have you seen this offense this year?) have forced the Mets to declare that they will spend money to upgrade the offense (whether it be through free agency or through trades).
Mind you, obviously you are not trading all of these players, but when you offer a combination from the likes of Wheeler, Syndergaard, or Montero with a d’Arnaud or maybe a Wilmer Flores, then the Mets have a reasonable shot at acquiring a player of Gonzalez or Stanton’s ilk.
With the way Kevin Plawecki is playing catcher in the minors and with d’Arnaud susceptible to injury, d’Arnaud should not be considered off limits anymore.
It is obvious that the Mets missed the boat to bolster the offense when they didn’t push hard enough to acquire Justin Upton in the offseason. They also did themselves no favors for passing on Michael Bourn in order to protect their first round draft pick this year.
So with the power of hindsight, Alderson can’t make the same mistake twice, at least not if he wants to stick around in Queens before he is shamed out of town.
The face of the “franchise”, David Wright, needs some help on the offensive side of things and while the Mets have strong pitching, Wright needs a partner in crime to help carry this team. He can’t do this alone.
That said, I present here an optimal way to improve the Mets for the 2014 season.
- Do what was rumored before and try to trade Wheeler and d’Arnaud for Stanton (or Gonzalez)
- Take a quasi-risk and sign Shin-Soo Choo to be your centerfielder and lead-off hitter
- If you trade d’Arnaud, then resign John Buck cheap until Plawecki can make his way to Queens
- Depending on how they perform the rest of the way, trade one to two from Ike Davis, Lucas Duda and Daniel Murphy while getting fair, market value in return.
So here can be your possible Mets’ lineup for 2014
- Shin Soo Choo-CF
- Daniel Murphy/Wilmer Flores (last resort Jordany Valdespin)-2B
- David Wright-3B
- Giancarlo Stanton-RF
- Ike Davis/Lucas Duda- 1B (there should be no plausible scenario where both of these players are on the same team next season)
- John Buck- C
- Combo of Juan Lagares, Cesar Puello, Kirk Nieuwenhuis or Collin Cowgill-LF
- Ruben Tejada-SS (we can’t upgrade every position)
Now if you trade Wheeler to get Stanton or Gonzalez, here can be the staff for 2014
- Matt Harvey
- Jon Niese
- Dillon Gee
- Jeremy Hefner
- And then sign a mid-tier pitcher through free agency or through trade.
While it’s not the most intimidating back end of the staff, at least you would feel comfortable knowing reinforcements are on the way with Syndergaard and Montero.
Again, come hell or high water, the Mets have to bring in a big bat that will generate some buzz. You got to get somebody you can tell the fanbase that you are serious about winning while changing the culture around Queens.
Status quo will not cut it anymore and it’s time Alderson puts his money where his mouth is.
I’m not sure that the Mets have enough to get Carlos Gonzalez or Giancarlo Stanton. If they are available, there will be many teams interested. Those calling for Sandy Alderson to make a big trade are overlooking the fact that the Mets can only offer very limited major league players and/or some promising farm hands. Is that enough to land a big bat?
NormE
Wheeler and d’Arnaud are two top 20 prospects. If the Marlins and Rockies are serious about trading Cargo and Stanton, then they may jump at the chance.
Any trade … any trade at all for an in-season player must include roster talent. To think that another GM will move a roster position and not get a roster position to replace it, is saying that man will commit hari-kari in his hometown.
Thus, considering that Niese and Parnell are your two best bargaining chips … at least one certainly will be gone. Probably both.
That said … so what? I’m more bullish than Dan. I’d do what it takes, right now, to bring in TWO corner outfielders. A whole stack of Montero’s and Wheelers means nothing to me against the counterpoint of having a legitimate hitting attack.
I agree with NormE that the Mets don’t have the players to get a big bat so they would need to change philosophy and trade their top prospects. The only bat I would do that for is Stanton because of his age and 3.5 years of control.
So that takes Wheeler, Syndergaard an d’arnaud off the table but it leaves you with a stockpile of young starting pitchers for other teams to choose from, along with Flores, Pawecki, Puello and Vaughn.
On the ML team the only players with trade value are Murphy and possibly Duda. A combination of Murphy + minor leaguer (s) could bring in an OF that is a better player than Murphy. The same could be said of Duda + minor leaguer(s) co
uld bring in a better player than Duda. Neither would bring in an impact bat but the Mets have some options behind these two players so that they may fill two holes while not creating two more.
So let me get this straight, you want the Mets to trade the only strength they have which is pitching in order to get a bat? That would be stupid unless is Montero or Syndergaard but not both. Take a look at your projected rotation:
Matt Harvey
Jon Niese
Dillon Gee
Jeremy Hefner
And then sign a mid-tier pitcher through free agency or through trade.
That rotation doesn’t get the Mets anywhere even with Stanton in the lineup.
How exactly does it help the Mets to improve the lineup while making the rotation worse?
Here is another idea. Let the Mets spend money and according to the bs being dished by Sandy, the Mets could have up to 35M to spend this winter.
Sign Choo and Beltran to a 2 year deal. Unless Ike Davis kills the ball at AAA, the Mets are better off moving pass him. For the life of me I can’t see why all the love for this guy who has gotten worse in 2 straight years.
By the way, if the Mets make a trade, it should be for someone like Carlos Gomez and then sign someone like Beltran because Choo is possibly going to be very expensive and the Mets would have to pay even more to get him.
Anyway, here is the lineup:
Carlos Gomez CF
Murphy 2B
Wright 3B
Beltran RF (Puello takes over somewhere along the line) or takes over for Duda in LF.
Duda LF
Flores 1B (the hell with Davis)
D’Arnaud C
Tejada SS
Rotation should still have at least:
Harvey, Niese, Wheeler,Gee and eventually depending on who gets traded either Hefner, Montero, Syndergaard, Mejia. But the point is that the Mets rotation MUST HAVE THE BIG 3 of Harvey, Niese, Wheeler.
Carlos Gómez just resigned for a pretty significant amount and I don’t see the Brewers parting with him anytime soon.
Also, the fact that you have Duda playing for the team but not at 1B automatically leads me to believe you’re not interested in putting the best possible team out.
The way Marcum’s been pitching why not resign him for next year or give Montero a chance at the 5th starter spot next year if he pitches well in a sept call up this year! Like you said
the mets need a power bat in RF or first base (if Ike can’t find his stroke) and a lead off hitter with speed in CF at the top of the order and bring up Flores and find a spot for him!!
If your going to play Murphy at first plug Flores in at 2nd Flores he is going to be a monster with a bat and he’s only 21 yrs old and how much more can he prove at AAA? He’s ready now and the mets should bring him up now while Ike’s in AAA and lets see what he can do because he is your future! Trade Murphy at the dead line and trade Wheeler and Travis D to Miami for Stanton in that deal you were talking about before he finds his swing this year and Miami desides not to trade him or that they want a lot more for him and put Flores at 2nd move Duda to first and put Spin in LF and if/or when Ike finds his swing you can worry about it then!! Now you get to see what you have at 2nd, first, and left for the future!!
Two things on Choo: He can’t play CF in Citi Field, he’s a corner. If the Mets are to build around pitching, we’ll need guys who can cover ground. That’s not a luxury, it’s essential. Secondly, I just can’t imagine Alderson going the years and price that Choo will demand on the marketplace.
He constantly blames the Mets situation on “bad contracts” and that’s just not true. It’s bad ownership. Sooner or later, this team needs to spend real money, and begin to generate revenue, and run this club that the thriving, successful business it should be. If the Mets want a guy like Choo, or to trade for and retain “a big bat,” they are going to have to join the marketplace where it exists. That is, “bad contracts.”
Lastly, Plawecki is too old for his level — a college graduate in his second year of professional ball at Low-A — there’s really no evidence yet if he’s a legitimate player or career backup. A solid half-season at St. Lucie would begin to tell us more.
Another delusional post about acquiring Stanton or CarGo. I still say it’s more likely that the Mets trade Wright before the Rockies trade CarGo or the Marlins deal with the Mets.
Yep. Fully agree. Jim Bowden said from his contacts in Miami that they will listen to anyone about Stanton, but he is fully inked into the future at Miami. The only way they are letting him go is for more than a King’s ransom. It would be a full emptying of top prospects. Why the Rockies would let go of CarGo would mystify me. I get they need pitching, and we have it coming up, and no FA starter wants to go there, but gutting whats bringing them to the top right now in a real hitters paradise seems pretty unlikely IMO.
Jim’s spot on—you must have a true and dynamic defensive Centerfielder in this park. It’s a humongous Centerfield…the corners are also big—fortunately, they’ve reduced the RF acreage. That said, a great CF allows you a greater ability to sacrifice glove for bat at the corners. This is most likely for LF—the RF is almost so big that you need a nice fielder with Range and arm there….good thing they reduced the size of rf.
I think the clamor for Stanton comes from 2 perceptions:
1. The Marlins have just had one of the larger salary dumps in recent memory: they do not want to pay ANYone.
2. The Marlins have no soul. They’ve never cared about things like trading within the division, no matter who owns them — see Piazza, Leiter, etc. — or where their players end up, only how much money they can save.
Regarding your post … my comments appended:
So here can be your possible Mets’ lineup for 2014
Shin Soo Choo-CF … maybe
Murphy/Flores (last resort Valdespin)-2B …. JV sucks, Flores has no range, Murphy needs to stay
David Wright-3B …. of course.
Giancarlo Stanton-RF … jury out on his ability to stay on the field
Davis/Duda- 1B (there should be no plausible scenario where both of these players are on the same team next season) … agree, both should not be on the team … I say they both should go …. Duda is a poor man’s Adam Dunn and Ike is Carlos Pena. Neither are significant elements on a championship team.
John Buck- C …. please, no.
Combo of Lagares, Puello, Nieuwenhuis or Cowgill-LF … Lagares is an unknown, Puello is an unknown with PED issues, Kirk and Cowgill suck.
Tejada-SS (we can’t upgrade every position) … could care less if he stays or goes.
My 2014 lineup would include: Wright (3B), Murphy (2B), d’Arnaud (C) …..
I would try to trade: Davis, Tejada, Duda, Nieuwenhuis, Valdespin …. Buck & Byrd are free agents and let them walk.
====================================
Now if you trade Wheeler to get Stanton or Gonzalez, here can be the staff for 2014
Harvey – Niese – Gee – Hefner – And then sign a mid-tier pitcher through free agency or through trade.
My rotation would be: Harvey – Wheeler – Niese – Montero – Gee, with Synderguard in the wings …. Hefner is NOT a solid, consistent starter and should be in the bullpen. I would not trade any of the top tier young pitchers …. I would trade Familia and Meija in an instant ….. I never want to see Edgin, Carson or Francisco again either.
====================================
Funny, as I am assembling this, I am realizing just how bad this 2013 team is …. further, any thought of being competitive in 2014 is a pipe dream. Major, major roster overhaul is needed.
Hefner’s more than adequate for a #5 pitcher. He gets his fastball up into the low 90s and can pitch deep into games. I’m happy with him as a cheap, versatile arm on our team and think we may be better off selling Montero in a package for a young, cost-controlled bat.
Hrrrm. No edit button. I wanted to add that if we could sign Choo and Beltrán, we wouldn’t even need to worry about trading impact prospects, though from what I understand, we’re headed for a pretty serious 40-man crunch this off-season.
I definitely agree that any of our pitchers not named Harvey should be on the block and that includes Wheeler and Niese. However, trading away D’Arnaud would be a terrible, terrible move, even for a guy like Giancarlo Stanton. Due to positional scarcity, there just aren’t many catchers with bats that could play at 1st base and D’Arnaud falls into that category. We’ll have him for 6.5 years at the very least and that’s definitely valuable. The difference between what D’Arnaud and Buck could put up in 2014 may be in the 2-3 WAR range, and that’s just his rookie season. Furthermore, we have nobody close at catcher and nobody nearly as good as D’Arnaud; he is the #1 or #2 catching prospect in baseball for a reason.
But yeah – we need to go in hard on guys like Carlos González and even Chase Headley – Headley could pay LF or 2B, and is having a down year due to a thumb injury, similar to what happened to Justin Upton last year. The Padres are also both in need of pitching and unlikely to be able to afford Chase Headley. I think Flores + a guy like Domingo Tapia or Tapia + another high end arm (Montero?) + Daniel Murphy gets it done and helps with defense and offense.
We definitely, definitely need to trade for a power+speed guy and need to dramatically overhaul our OF – the trade plus a Choo signing and maybe a Beltrán signing if he’s willing to come back would put us in a much better position as a team. A D’Arnaud, Flores, Headley, Tejada/Quintanilla platoon, and Wright infield + Choo, González, and Beltrán (or any two of the three – Beltrán and Choo wouldn’t require us to trade prospects) would make us a significantly better team than the dreck we’re putting out there right now.
We could trade Duda, Davis, Byrd, Valdespín, Nieuwenhuis, Baxter (or release) or go into next year with Byrd-man and Lagares off the bench. Alderson knows he needs to completely overhaul the roster between right now and March of next year so…let’s get on it.
When Mets fans talk about trading for Stanton we have to remember that predicting what Miami’s owner will do is foolhardy. Loria marches to his own beat.
Besides, just imagine what teams like Boston, Baltimore, LAA, Chicago (both), Philadelphia, just to name a few, might do to obtain
a power hitter like Stanton. I’m not sure that Alderson would be able to match some of the offers, or if he would be comfortable upping
the ante in a bidding war.
I’m not sure why the Rockies would even consider trading Carlos Gonzalez. The price would probably be too steep for most teams.
The Wilpons have dug a hole for themselves and I’m not sure Sandy A. has the tools or the inclination to dig out of it.
CarGo isn’t going anywhere. Why do you persist in bringing up his name? The Rockies near the top of their division. You add Wheeler to the front end of the rotation as your number two projected starter and you build from there. A trade with the Angels for Peter Bourjos (they have 3 center fielders as their starting outfield) is practical and can be accomplished without giving up the entire farm system. Add Choo who will be a free agent next year who can play right field and lead off. Can’t solve everything in one day but at least the organization should try to make some kind of effort in trying to salvage what is left of this season.
Options, man, options. We need to look at all of them and I can guarantee that the Rockies don’t have anywhere near the high-end arms that we have in our system. Someone like Tapia with his 97+ MPH fastball and absurd ground ball rates could draw interest. The Rockies also have literally 5 guys that have produced anything at all on the positional player side – Tulo, Cargo, Fowler, Arenado, and Cuddyer – other than that, they’ve got Wilin Rosario and pretty much nothing.
I do think that we stand a solid shot at getting Chase Headley considering the following: relationship between Alderson and that FO, their strong young, cost-controlled infield (Alonso, Gyorko, Cabrera), their absolute lack of impact starting pitching, and our combination of Daniel Murphy, Wilmer Flores, and pitching…
Why do you want a 3b player in Headley? Wright? Flores?…Are you looking to stretch him out as an OFer? He graded out as a Negative WAR player defensively in the OF. And his 1 season of plus hitting makes you forget he couldn’t hit more than 12HRs any season other? Or post an OPS above .775? He’ll be 30 and that’s the falloff for a player in skills. If he already lacked them when he was 24 in the OF where does he grade out when he’s 30 and beyond in the OF?
I can understand looking at Bourjos. He is still going to cost a top 80 prospect in return in the Angels eyes. Especially with their depleted farm. It would likely be Montero on the asking price.
The issue you run in with Choo is, undoubtedly he is a 15mil/yr player when you sign him. Maybe you sign him to the Boston deals of last offseason of 3yr/39mil. But he’s better than those guys and obviously better than Upton so it stands with reason he asks for 16mil. If he can command that then clearly Cinncy will give him a QO so he comes with losing a draft selection.
I don’t see Gonzalez or Stanton making their way to the Mets. Stanton is obviously not happy in his current situation in Miami, but I still don’t see them trading him. He’s their main man.
I also agree with some of the other commenters that Gonzalez isn’t leaving Colorado. The Rockies signed him and Tulo long-term for a reason and I don’t see them giving on that game plan just yet.
With the Mets getting d’Arnaud, Syndergaard and more for R.A. Dickey I would put the price of Stanton around Wheeler, Flores + Syndergaard. The price for Gonzalez would be lower as he’s older and more expensive.
I can’t evaluate whether that’s a fair offer or not, but I don’t think the comparison really works. Dickey is a starting pitcher and Stanton is a corner outfielder, even on equal footing one is inherently more valuable. Dickey was coming off a Cy Young and Stanton, while hitting well, was not the MVP. Both of those factors make Dickey>Stanton in winter 2012.
Apparently you don’t take Age in to consideration. Stanton at 23 years old supposedly has the most power in his bat than any player in MLB. Dickey will be filing for S.S when Stanton is still cranking 25-35HRs a season.
What Toronto gave to the Mets for Dickey was beyond criminal!
And believe me, I’m a huge Dickey fan. I love Knuckleballers ever since Steve Sparks threw them for Milwaukee. Mets should have gotten 1 of TDA or Syndergaard only. plus a lesser prospect. To give away Young talent for a player who you can only hope makes it another 3 years playing, just not smart.
Stanton has a decade or more to hit bombs for whoever tries to trade for him. He’s ranked as an 80 as a scout for power. Generally power bats are 60 with upside potential to 70. Stanton is an 80 today,yesterday, and a long time coming. He’s more unique than Dickey is.
Trade Prospect Pitching and Hefner to Chicago for Junior Lake
Trade Murphy in offseason for relief help
Sign Ellsbury, Choo, an RP and an SP with the $44 Mil
Catcher: d’Arnaud
1B: Davis (Duda)
2B: Flores (Valdespin)
3B: Wright
SS: Lake (Tejada)
LF: Puello (Lagares)
CF: Ellsbury (Den Dekker)
RF: Choo (Lagares)
Here’s the thing, the Mets are a currently turtle laying on their shell upside down. Everyone knows that. Hitting the panic button right now, on a lost season, is a terrible mistake. By the way next year is lost too. Going after some big bat right now will cost 50-100% more than whoever we could get is worth because every GM in the world knows the Mets are in freefall this season. That is certainly not the Alderson approach, and it would not be mine either. I still think we need to carefully consider any pitcher we get rid of, but I would not empty the house. Our needs are many, and looking for more than a power bat is essential too.
Andre Ethier .
interesting with Ethier. If Dodgers eat a lot of the contract he could be had for a less than top prosepct.
There’s a lot of naysayers about Ethier.
I believe the Mets would really have to get a steal to take him on. Say LA pays at least half of his full salary and we give up a Tejada/B prospect.
Otherwise, he’s just a problem for the Dodgers and I don’t pay to take on others’ problems.
A shocking stat from Adam Rubin:
In Matt Harvey’s six career losses, the #Mets have scored a total of three runs with him on the mound and seven in those games overall.
Like the conversation guys. Good opinions here.
The way I see it, we can have all the great pitching in the world, but if you can’t get anything behind them, it becomes futile. Look at today, Harvey again great but no offense.
Again, with the Mets barren of any legitimate bats helping them out anytime soon, they have to give up something to get something they covet.
Maybe they don’t have to give up Wheeler, etc, but they do have to sacrifice some arms to get bats. They need it!
I would say they stay patient if they had a Wil Meyers in the wings, but they don’t.
The Mets are NOT making any trades. The only trades the team will make is at the deadline to move Marcum and Francisco(if healthy)This is just a distraction to keep the fan base from accepting the fact that this team as it was built by Sandy is terrible. Sign Choo next year and he can lead off and play right. Sign Granderson to play center and can protect Wright’s bat so pitchers have to pitch to him. If Davis is a bust bring Duda to first base and platoon left field.
As a Brewer Fan, I will try to fathom a reasonable trade suggestion for you know who.
Clearly, one of the best if not the best CF defensively in the game when it comes to covering ground is Carlos Gomez. And now his bat is living up to all that projected potential.
Brewers in the Winter Meetings trade Carlos Gomez to the Mets for:Wheeler or Syndergaard and Rafael Montero.
It doesn’t cost both Wheeler and Syndergaard because the other caveat to this deal is: Brewers also trade Marco Estrada(Don’t Laugh he’s good in a Pitchers park watch…better than Marcum) for Wilmer Flores.
The Brewers also trade Kentrail Davis to the Mets.
Brewers desperately need SP and a 3b prospect. Wright isn’t going anywhere anytime soon. Estrada is a flyball pitcher with control stuck in a HR friendly ballpark. I think by giving away Wheeler plus Montero Estrada is the piece that fills in as a serviceable replacement.
Kentrail Davis is one of many OF prospects. He’s stuck in AA behind Gindl,Khris Davis and with other promising OF prospects coming up, he’s a cheap and potentially productive RF for the Mets.
I think if you take on Estrada/Davis the team saves one of Wheeler/Syndergaard. Otherwise, I think both Wheeler/Syndergaard come for Gomez alone.
Not a bad idea. I’d like to hear other thoughts on that.
Can Gomez, who’s been on fire, sustain this level of awesmomeness? And can he shine back under the bright lights of the city where he once played before?
A lot of food for thought here.
I’ll tell you why he can and will sustain it. In his prime and this stat: He’s swinging at less pitches that are out of the zone. He swings at more pitches that are IN the zone. He’s more patient at the plate.
And what can your team do with all the money saved 10mil/year on Gonzalez or 5 or more a year on Choo.
Gomez far outclasses Gonzalez and Choo defensively and is on pace for an 11WAR season.
He’s publicly said it’s easier for him to play full-time than when he was a platoon player which adds to him maintaining this consistency.
Brewers aren’t rated highly in the farm but they must have near 10 Minor League OF guys who somehow have to find a place on the team now through 4 years from now. And Braun isn’t leaving 1 of the OF spots for 7 more years.
Braun may not be leaving for 7 more years but Bud doesn’t forget and will do his best to give him a vacation in season.
Gomez? Are you kidding?
Look, congrats to the Brewers for having him. Before you go to Mil, which has no need to give up an OF, you go to Detroit … that has an excess. And maybe get Austin Jackson for about 75% of what you need to get Gomez. Parnell, Duda, + ?
You go to Tampa Bay, that needs a spot for Wil Myers and find out what they want for Matt Joyce. He comes to NY for Duda + ?
You go to the Marlins, and NOT ask for Stanton. Get Ozuna … or for that matter, Ruggiero. Flores ?
Bourjos I’m sure can be had, but I’m not going to look to see what the Angels need that we have.
You’ll grimace, but Josh Willingham knows the NL-E and can outplay Duda all day long.
The Mets don’t need to sink into 5+ WAR positions. Simply get a good baller, from a team that needs a closer, or needs a 1B, or needs a prospect 3B and that has excess OFers. Anyone of the guys listed has shown the potential of getting to 3+ up to 5 WAR.
Gomez is a pipe dream. And with the injuries in Colorado, you aren’t getting anyone from them. Time to look at Tier 2.
So you want rental guys that are going to be generally garbage. You’re best trade thought, Austin Jackson is going to 2nd year Arb and his 3rd year Arb and beyond will cost as much and more than Gomez.
You’re mistaken the Brewers don’t have OFs they have MLB trio ready today to have Khris Davis in Left, Logan Schafer in CF and Caleb Gindl in LF. Then there’s Mitch Haniger,Tyrone Taylor and Victor Roache 2-4 years from now.
And that’s after sending Kentrail in my deal.
Matt Joyce is garbage (free agent in 2016)? Josh Willingham (free agent 2015)? Marcell Ozuna (free agent 2019)? What part of that is “rental” – aka Beltran?
Tell me how any one of them is garbage. Matt Joyce is a 2-3 WAR player. Willingham is upwards of 2-3, with considerable advantages of knowing the NL-E. Ozuna, to me, looks like a guy that you want on your team. Tell you what Chris … in three years, I’ll check back on you and you can tell me how Marcell Ozuna is “garbage”.
And sorry if it doesn’t fit the Mets making a deal with Milwaukee, but the Brewers have an issue with their best OFer. They aren’t in the “selling mode” in the OF, and won’t be for some time. Those are chips they will best see themselves as holding.
In case you missed it, my whole point is this: don’t shoot for the stars. You can considerably upgrade the Mets outfield at two positions, without gutting our team.
Our needs list to too long to shoot for the stars, but there is a lot of magic to be had in the sub Stanton/CarGo world. Keep in mind with the pitching we have, a solid but not necessarily “Tiger like” offense is all we need to be a fine team. To me Parnell should open some eyes, particularly in Detroit. THe Mets need are so many that worrying about a 9th inning guy is practically pointless until other things are addressed.
Willingham has 1 year left on his contract. You don’t trade between lousy team midseason the offers aren’t going to be extreme. So you want 35yr old. Willingham for 2014 only to solve your OF?
Matt Joyce 2 more years. Defensive Liability. That solves your OF?
Ozuna if you want him after his start? Good. Miami will take Syndergaard for him. do you want him still? I think Braun has a better chance be traded to the Mets than Ozuna does. I didn’t state Ozuna was garbage, I just ignored the idea.
Jackson is a rental like Joyce. he will also be seeing 6-8.5 mil next year then 10mil the following then he’s a Free Agent. Detroit’s asking price will be as steep as what I’m suggesting for Gomez…Probably higher really since his career has nothing but 6+WAR seasons to date.
As for your assumption holding on to our OFers. did you read my response all the way or just stop at garbage? There’s 7OFs knocking to play for the team…All of them likely better than any Mets OF prospect not named Nimmo.
What’s the point holding on to the chips when you have them for a time frame that expires when the forward thinking is the team returns to Playoff contention? 2016 is what the team is shooting for now. That’s bye to Gomez, bye to Aoki and all those OFs the other 4 would have been traded away for weaker prospects most likely than what value the team could get by playing them before trading them?
The Brewers have an answer for Braun in Davis. They are clearly 2 years or more away from maybe contending. But damn, I’ll tell you STl. and Pitt are loaded so 2 years is a long shot.
I get your idea though. Protect the Ace Pitchers your team has…but doesn’t need when in a Pitcher’s ballpark. Gun for 2ish WAR hitters in a pitcher’s ballpark where clearly you need hitting to score enough runs to support all the 0s constantly being posted. Your team need more impact bats than it does impact arms. If your fans of Marcum, who was booed off the field many occasions last season for Milw. It shows you how much an advantage mediocre pitching receives playing in the NL East.
I like where you are at JG. I agree Detroit needs to look at Parnell. A-Jax would be the obvious target there.
Ozuna would be an excellent grab for sure.
I like your thinking Chris K. This is exactly the kind of thinking that meshes with the Mets side of the deal.
Chris you said the magic words GIVE AWAY. I don’t see Met management being that incompetent. You are asking for way too much for Gomez. But then again you are a Brewer fan who I am sure is waiting for the ax to fall on Ryan Braun.
Okay so you want Carlos Gonzalez at the cost of TDA,Wheeler or Syndergaard and Montero? Nevermind he’s going to cost 53.5mil plus 20mil year 4 vs. Gomez costing 24mil combined 2014-16?
Gomez is on near the same pace of 30/30 this year with a better defensive zone. Col-Cargo 3.3 War currently….Milw Cargo 4.5. Nevermind Gonzalez plays in the thin air and expansive home of Coors Field.
Just because Gonzalez has the better career numbers doesn’t make him the best player available. I’d bet $100 right now if you could get all the GM’s in Baseball to give their opinion who they’d want in the OF on their team Gonzalez or Gomez, Gomez would get more votes just on his defense and his developing bat.
I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say. I would pass on Cargo. The Brewers aren’t going to trade Gomez now that they have him at a reasonable price. And if Braun is suspended for 100 games they would need to keep Gomez even more.
Khris Davis is the LF in place of Braun. Gomez is CF. Schafer is CF. Aoki is RF. Gindl is RF. Schafer currently plays as our 4th OFer but the team can trade away the entire OF trio of Braun,Gomez, and Aoki and not blink currently.
To Jerry Grote. Add a shortstop to your deal with Detroit and I think the deal gets made. The Tigers may lose Peralta to the PED scandal for the rest of the season. Valverde is inconsistent and just doesn’t seem to have it this year. Maybe it was the WBC?
I think you might be right.
To Charlie. I think the Marlins will wait until the trading deadline to move Stanton. Like squeezing an orange to the last drop.
If I were the Marlins, any team asking about Stanton would get offered Ozuna, Ruggiano, or Pierre … they’ve got a top 5 prospect at AAA raking it.
Ruggiano isn’t chopped liver. He’s shown he can catch and in the last 550 ABs he’s hit 21 HR and over 30 doubles. He’s right handed, and he’s under control for four years.
No one is going to take Juan Pierre off their hands. But with the right package, you can get him … if you can’t get Austin Jackson away from the Tigers.
Peter, good observation, I agree that Detroit could perhaps be seeking a SS with Peralta potentially being suspended, and the aging Ramon Santiago being his backup. So maybe Parnell, Duda, and Tejada/Flores for A-Jax and an A- or B+ prospect? (depending on whether it’s Ruben or Flores that gets moved)
I find it quite amusing people continue to talk about potential trade targets who aren’t available, and then getting frustrated and angry that something isn’t getting done. I wonder if other teams think that they can trade for Matt Harvey or David Wright?
Yeah, well dreaming about what we could have is a damned site more enjoyable than thinking about the team and the coaching we’re saddled with right now.
Hey Jerry Grote!Who would you like to see manage the Mets for 2014?
Clearly, Dave Hudgens.
🙂
Not Wally … he’s just red meat for the press corps’ lions. They’ll never stop hounding him until he says something like “this ownership can go fck themselves”.
Otherwise I’d readily admit to not knowing who to get. I just can’t put up with a manager so concerned with whether or not a AAA player thinks his job is open.
Ike heard that JG.
Jerry TC is not his own man. Just a puppet for management. Maybe by the All-Star break the team cleans house? Pretty embarrassing if the Mets are 20 games below 500 by then. Lets see. No cohesive plan. No coaching. No future. Just mix and match and see what happens each day. At least the Marlins have a plan and with a payroll of only 50 million. We may not agree with it but they have almost as many wins as the Mets.
What makes anybody think the Mets can sign a free agent to play here? they would have to overpay so much, they would look like idiots. Nobody in their right mind would come to the Mets, knowing, if they were a superstar, the Met maybe would win 10 more games. I see the Mets winning 65 games this year. They would have to sign two free agents, and trade for one more to have any kind of offense to win games. This offense sucks. Matt Harvey 5-1!!! He should be 10 and 1.