Terry Collins has managed the 81st most games in the history of major league baseball. All told he has managed for 10 years and compiled a record of 748-778, a .490 winning percentage. He has managed the Mets since 2011. Over those four seasons his records sits at 304-344, a .469 winning percentage.
Collins had his most success during his first three years as a manager when he was at the helm of some very good Houston Astros teams from 1994-1996. Those teams had a record of 224-197, a .532 winning percentage. Alas, they never made the playoffs, finishing second in all three years.
Collins next managed for the Angels, a team fairly loaded with talented players that he led to 2nd, 2nd and a 4th place finish before quitting near the end of the 1999 season when the players infamously rebelled against him.
So that brings us today and the question at hand: Is Terry Collins capable of managing a winner? The numbers tell a tale that, on the surface, doesn’t bode well for a favorable opinion. Only 10 managers in major league history have managed more games than Collins and not made the postseason. If he completes 2015 and fails to make the post-season he will move into 8th place on that list.
So what is it about a Collins led team that makes the post season seem so out of reach? Some may argue it’s the players—he hasn’t had the horses. In Houston his teams were very talented offensively, but the pitching was a bit thin. His Angels team were fairly solid in all phases, he had a great reliever, but they lacked a true #1 starter.
That brings us to the Mets. To be fair, Collins has not had very good teams to work with, in fact they have been pretty mediocre compared to the competition. It can also be argued that Collins has not provided much of a strategic or tactical advantage to his teams—he manages by the book for his in game moves, his lineups are at times perplexing, and he is, by all accounts, very much a player’s manager. Depending on who you speak with this means he is either easy on his players, or a defender/protector. Being a player’s manager is not necessarily a bad thing—Bruce Bochy is a players manager, Joe Torre was as well, and they both did pretty well for themselves.
Looking at the 2015 Mets we see a team that is not better offensively than Collin’s Astro teams, and certainly not better than his Angel teams. The 2015 Mets are, however, likely to be a far better pitching team than any Collins has managed before, and that leads us to wonder can this team win and make the playoffs? Is Collins capable of extracting a true winner, a playoff team, from the tools at his disposal?
History says no. Some will say maybe. What do you think?
Now this is truly a first! Terry Collins is a players manager! Since when? Speaking to what players? Can you be a little more specific? Let’s see. I seem to recall that when TC makes a move that doesn’t work out he simply shrugs his shoulders and says I can’t help it if the players don’t execute. Yes Dave that really sounds like a manger sticking up for his players. Or how about the private conversation he had with Jose Reyes wanting to come out after one at bat to preserve his chances of winning a batting title. What did Collins say when asked why Reyes came out after one at-bat? He (Reyes) asked to come out. Yes Dave that really sounds like a manger protecting his players. When was the last time you heard Collins take the blame for any situation on the field? A players manager? Doubt it. Try Jim Leyland who during a press conference took the blame for not putting his players in a better situation to succeed and losing a play off series. Now that sir is a players manager.
Terry is an owner’s and GM’s manager. Terry comes through big in the post game press conferences opining the company line.
We are in the number market for all of baseball. We as fans deserve to have the “best” available option to “manage” the Mets. Pinching pennies and having this organization develop a reputation for trying to screw every veteran that they decide to cut before their contracts become guaranteed is embarrassing.All things being equal any free agent will go to any other team that offers a similar contract. that’s why Alderson has to overpay for free agents to come here.So Nick what outsider are the Mets going to hire if he doesn’t promote the company line? None. And that’s where I have an issue with the Wilpons and Alderson.
I am not suggesting that the Met’s sign any outsider. I suggest this as the reason that they will not promote a “fan favorite” insider – Wally Backman. The fans clamor for Wally Backman. Many say that he is not a “Sandy-man.” and that is why they will not promote him. What does it mean to not be a “Sandy-man? The Met’s are a couple of players away. This ownership either cannot or will not do what is necessary to put the team over the top. We field an All-Star team of players we pretend to pursue every off-season.
Honestly it’s the writers who tag every free agent they envision the Mets trying to add. Alderson finished free agency this year after adding his number one priority Michael Cuddyer. Doesn’t that say it all? Collins is not going to lead the Mets to a World Series. So the question is who? The Wilpons don’t like Backman. Fine. Then who? Gardenhire? Baker? Guillen? The manager they should of gone after was Maddon. But as usual for the Wilpons a day late and a dollar short. Nick I’m in agreement with you. Finally I would add this franchise would be better off with new ownership.
Pete, here is what the Mets Captain said recently. “I like Terry. I have a good relationship with him,” David Wright said. “Terry has my back and I have his.”
Here is a link to an article with Terry taking blame. http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/story/_/id/8028505/new-york-mets-manager-terry-collins-takes-blame-johan-santana-poor-outing
There are numerous other examples, and Terry does stand up for his players.
can he manage a winner? Yes i think he can. he did finish 2nd several times I bet some of those 2nd place teams may have been WC’s if it existed at the time. I don’t believe any manager would have been much better over his time here I think some more high strung guys may have exacerbated issues. That said of course he’ll be on a short leash this year so to quote al davis “Just win baby”
I’ve watched Terry for four years and I’m not impressed, though I think he’s functional when it comes to making moves. I don’t think he’s a bright guy, and I disagree with him on some moves.
I don’t like him, ultimately.
But he can win if he has the better team. We’ve seen that throughout baseball history. Charlie Manuel was nobody’s prize. That said: I’ve prefer a manager who was not a handicap, but an asset. I’m envious of the tough-minded, courageous move Epstein made with the Cubs, getting Maddon. With a manager like that, you don’t even right these articles; the doubt is removed — and psychologically, that’s important. It’s like an NFL QB who has won a Super Bowl; it allows you to focus on other areas.
Well said James. I could not agree with you more. Is Collins an asset or a liability? If he’s that damn good he would of gotten a two year extension and not be a lame duck manager going into the season. To me that’s not exactly a ringing endorsement from management. Is he adequate? Sure. But there are better managers who know how to better utilize their 25 man roster.
Until they prove otherwise, managers should be treated like middle relievers – completely fungible and quickly replaced when they don’t succeed. If only Alderson treated Collins like he (correctly) treated Blaine Boyer.
I will Terry Collins this. Despite losing seasons, and despite managing in the biggest media outlet in the world, the Mets clubhouse hasn’t had any major problems during the losing times. Even with Harvey set to make waves last year, it never really happened. That’s partly Alderson, but Collins deserves some credit. I think he more than anyone with or outside that team believes this group is capable of making the playoffs. He seems to engender positivity at least, and that’s something a lot of managers can’t do.
Also, I do believe he generally sticks up for his players. But he can’t throw himself on the fire for every decision, bad play or comment they make. They have to be responsible for what they do and say as well. So yes, occasionally it might look like Collins throws guys to the wolves. I’d rather see that a someone who’s constantly making excuses for his guys like a whipping boy.
Great points Patrick…I spoke to Wally Backman today…I’d love him at the helm.
I’m sure Wally loved hearing Terry stating that if the season started today Flores would be batting eighth or at the winter meetings when he said this would be a better team if ruben tejada (who can barely slug over 300) was starting and Wilmer was a utility player? The guy is a moron who does nothing but make excuses, throws his young players under the bus constantly and ruins our pitchers. Unless he takes this team deep into the playoffs I can see no justification for bringing back a then 67 yr old Collins. (Btw big fan of you and the kult podcast)
Thanks! That podcast is a real pleasure to do. I have to agree with much of your post regarding Terry.
It’s a tough question to really answer. My question is can Collins make a winner by getting a team to play above their talent. My feeling is no chance. Look a Ross town. Girardi has done a remarkable job keeping the Yankees in the conversation pretty much the whole season despite having as bad or worse talent than the Mets in a tougher division. Can collins manage a winner? I think most of the wins comes between the lines, so actual baseball talent is the critical thing. That said, I struggle to see Collins make imaginative and winning moves in post season baseball. We all know he goes matchy matchy at the drop of a hat and has no fear about burning through a pen by the 10th, maybe 9th.
The least appreciated part of any winning team is their decision maker. Until he is capable of having long lasting success, the manager is taken for granted. I believe a manager has a huge say in the outcome, but it starts in March.
It starts with making your players accountable for their failures; for being fundamentally sound; for being able to keep their heads in the game; for
managing the personalities but also managing the talents; not running a player into the ground but sometimes protecting them from their competitive selves, which is part of the makeup which makes a player great.
A manager’s job is not to make a lineup card and take out the lefty when a righty comes in, my little nephew could do that. The manager must keep his players’ minds on the game and maximize the talent of each player that he has.
Doug Melvin has had success with less of a roster than most teams; so has Showalter; so has Maddon; so have Gardenhire, Hurdle, and definitely Bochy.
Collins is a joke, he has no clue. Mattingly is another manager that has not put his players in the position to excel. And for my final example, do you think that if Leyland was still managing the Tigers last year they get Swept by the Orioles? You don’t think Leyland would have brought in Nathan in the eighth with two outs to get four outs rather than Ausmus waiting til the ninth but blowing the lead?
Teams don’t win by accident. Stop trying to fool yourselves into buying the crap our Front Office has been feeding us for four years! Goodness sakes, we’re starting to sound like them around here!
100% on target Gus. The idea is to have Collins so imbedded with this team that he starts to grow on you like a fungus. Leyland would of had Nathan in the 8th or would of used a starter if he had no confidence in his pen. How’s that for thinking outside the box? Can you imagine Collins in the playoffs? He’ll use 7 pitchers to match up every night just to get to the closer.
I think the Mets would do better if they had a better manager.
Collins bullpen management is poor and his use of a LOOGY strains the rest of the bullpen, He plays his veteran’s into the ground and refuses to play a young player when a veteran is failing. His line up makeup is suspect and he doesn’t believe in platoons. He is not innovative. He does not put his players in a position to succeed.
He better start learning platoons because that’s what Alderson has provided him with this year. i think Sandy calls it flexibility? Collins calls it a headache.
Metsense, I get the impression you were just getting warmed up, LOL! I could never understand how Collins still is managing the Mets because it’s not like his bosses don’t see what we see and don’t think of what we think. So, what’s the deal?
He is inexpensive, he is good with the media, he is likeable, he likes his job, he has patience, he is a management team player and he was willing to not rock the boat the last four years when given a talent poor team. It isn’t the way I would pick a manager but it suits the Wilpon’s and Sandy just fine.
He works cheap Gus. Why else the Wilpons haven’t made available to the public or to the media as to how much TC makes. It’s embarrassingly low! And why not? He’s happy just to be managing again. Sadly no manager with worthy credentials was going to take a pay cut because ownership just did not have the money to pay anyone above minimum wage.
Pete. I agree. Even discussing the contributing value of Collins is somewhat meaningless because of the Ownership conundrum. As long as the Wilpons remain entrenched at the helm, the Mets ship is anchored and ultimately heading nowhere. It’s like worrying about replacing your windshield wipers if your transmission is blown. What’s the point?
They say a manager makes a real positive difference in only 6-12 games a season. Collins does not pass that test. On the other hand no manager hits, fields or pitches so even the best of managers would not have brought home a winner these last 5 years.
“They” haven’t seen many Mets games.
Collins may not be a winning manager, and nobody dislikes him in the position more than I do, but if you look at the other options, what is there? Alderson is not going to take a chance with a rookie manager, and the only manager on the market is Ozzie Guillen who says he is ready to be back in the MLB. I love Guillen’s personality and passion for the game, but I don’t think that Alderson would take him.
Dan, it’s like the Tejada situation: You know this option isn’t working, why not try another? Flores should have been starting last May…
Some managerial candidates: Backman (why not, really?), Gardenhire, David Martinez, Joe McEwing. Who’s that for a start?
The crime was not spending 25 Million to get Joe Maddon in NY. He would have been a perfect fit, especially for a financially strapped team with young talent. The difference between the Cubs-Theo/Jed and the Mets-Alderson was laid bare right there.
Just think Chris if the Mets make it to the wild card and lose that game Terry gets a 2 year extension!
Haha! That is our worst nightmare realized!
Great article Dave. I think Collins is capable of managing a winning team. The Mets have not had decent teams under Collins, and I thought the 2014 season was the time for the team to take a step forward and play .500 baseball. Of course with Harvey’s injury, it seemed unlikely they were going to be a .500 team. This is the season that will make or break Terry Collins. The team has to win, and I don’t expect the Mets to match up with the Nationals, but I do expect them to be in the Wild Card hunt all the way through September.
Thanks James, you have a very pragmatic view, and it’s easy to agree with you. The question is if we truly will be in the hunt (and I agree we will), will those 5-8 games a great manager can positively influence swing our way with Terry?