Truckin’, like the do-dah man. Once told me “You’ve got to play your hand”
Sometimes your cards ain’t worth a dime, if you don’t lay’em down,Sometimes the light’s all shinin’ on me,
Other times I can barely see.
Lately it occurs to me what a long, strange trip it’s been.
We’ve gone from Sandy Alderson being a “semi-retired GM” to the guy making more headlines than the loser who shot the lion. Around 9:00 last night, when the Carlos Gomez trade was a done deal, this post was going to be how Alderson kept his word and was willing to overpay to make a deal. But after the surreal events of the next three hours, it’s impossible to discuss anything else.
Everyone knows we live in the 24-hour news cycle. We can debate whether that’s a good thing or not. But no one can dispute that 10 years ago that this story would have played out differently. While we may have heard rumors of trade talks heating up between the two teams, it’s unlikely that the entire stadium would have known the deal and that Wilmer Flores would have been crying on the field.
Another lousy effort from Bartolo Colon gets kicked to the side as we discuss what should or shouldn’t have happened last night. When the club is trying to win games, it seems odd that there’s been absolutely no talk about replacing a guy with a 4.96 ERA overall and a 6.01 mark in his last 14 starts. Instead, we’re up in arms about not pulling the trigger on a deal where we would have overpaid to get an injured guy.
You can make the argument that Flores is eminently replaceable and Wheeler isn’t going to give you a full season until 2017, so rolling the dice on Gomez was a good move. But there’s the image of the player that Gomez was in 2013 versus the guy he is now. He’d be an upgrade over the equally-injured Juan Lagares, assuming he would be able to stay on the field. That might be an acceptable risk to some, but to me, there’s nothing wrong with not wanting to overpay for such risk, especially when there are so many other outfielders on the trading block.
From May 24 to September 7 last year, Wheeler had a 2.76 ERA with a 9.2 K/9 and a 1.193 WHIP over 20 starts. You may find him incredibly frustrating to watch pitch, which having agonized over viewing Sid Fernandez pitch, makes sense to me. But you cannot deny that he’s an incredibly talented pitcher. It seems crazy to me to consider him fungible, even with the depth of the other Mets’ starters.
You should be willing to trade depth, not squander it.
Mets fans will recall that a hip injury ended Carlos Delgado’s career. While most hip injuries are not that severe and can be fixed with surgery, we should be leery of acquiring a guy who may need to lose significant time in the year and two months he’s under team control. Even if you consider Wheeler a lost cause until 2017, the Brewers would receive four years of him before he was eligible for free agency.
Even if everything broke right, and Gomez was able to stay healthy through the remainder of 2015 and have surgery in the offseason, how would you play things in 2016? Will Michael Cuddyer and Lagares, who both signed lucrative multi-year deals in the offseason, be content with backup roles? Do you want the budget-conscious Mets to be spending $15 million on two reserve outfielders? You can say it would give the team a strong bench. Yet five guys who think they should be starting can be problematic, though, especially if the Mets continue to employ a manager who’s displayed zero ability to effectively deploy reserves.
We can look at Gomez and see a guy who is a RH power bat to play CF as just the guy we need. Unfortunately, looking only at the best-case scenario of what could happen is how we ended up with Cuddyer. He was the RH power bat in the corner that we needed. That one didn’t play out so well, as the team glossed over the potential risks involved in the signing.
Anyway, kudos to Alderson for having the courage to walk away from this deal. Hopefully he will still be in there punching, trying to get a productive OF or SS bat. It was tough to see Troy Tulowitzki traded for less than a king’s ransom, as he’s still exactly what this team needed. But after seeing Alderson so aggressive making deals this July, it wouldn’t be a surprise to see him pull another move before Friday’s non-waiver deadline.
Ten years ago it would have been reported on the radio and everyone would have known.
Collins looked like a clown last night, and the post-game rant was disgraceful.
This is the world we live in. Complaining about phones is just pathetic.
Meanwhile, Sandy and his staff sat on their hands and let this all play out over a couple of hours. One tweet that read, “Trade is not official” could have gone a long way in terms of getting ahead of the curve. Strange that there was zero communication between Sandy and Collins, who was clearly in the dark and clueless. They don’t have a clubhouse? No Wi-Fi? No TVs?
Deal or no deal, he should have put in Tejada. Did he really think that Wilmer was going to give him outstanding play the rest of the way? “Maybe this will be good for him,” Collins said. Yeah, maybe.
I very much appreciate that Alderson has finally stirred and is attempting to address the team’s weaknesses. Hopefully it’s not too late. Not ready to pin a medal on his chest for trying to do his job.
I agree – it’s disturbing how the Mets made Flores a sympathetic figure last night. Can’t imagine he’ll be in the lineup today, which probably means he’ll be hitting cleanup.
You’re overracting. This is the world you want so don’t sound so surprised when something like this happens. Social media runs the show but when it backfires like this, everyone stands around scratching their heads and wondering why. The Mets were merely trying to improve your team.
Not sure what you are saying here, Eric. Social media exists, and the Mets have an 80-year-old PR man. Mets.com still had news of the trade up 30 minutes after Sandy refuted it. No communication. TC out of the loop. Flores hung out to dry. Organization bungled this badly.
I keep trying to avoid talking about Collins as I find it hard to ever say anything positive anyway, but I cannot. Plus, I don’t believe him. The entire dugout knew, why didn’t he? And if no one is telling him, that points to a bigger problem. Is he such an unapproachable a-hole? Possibly. When the SNY broadcast spent all game long focused on Flores, it’s a done deal. Otherwise, why let your own network look foolish. They entire world knew! How is it that this poor helpless individual never knows anything? His player is crying, never noticed it? I saw a highlight late last night that he went over between innings and put his arm on Flores, why then did he do it? He’s full of crap!
Just trade a fraction of this for Cespedes, resign him in November and even Flores will be laughing about it next summer when he’s hitting .275 with 12 HR at the trade deadline of July 2016 filling in for an injured David Wright.
Yes…I believe all players are Fungible Assets. This would have been a “Makes Sense” deal for both teams, in my opinion. It’s a non-deal because Gomez may be damaged and unavailable. Otherwise, I hope there’s agreement that Wheeler (especially) is available in the right packsge. I do agree with you that he’s a valuable Starting Pitcher—and he hasn’t received the Home Town Love, as he should.
As for currently under contract players, Cuddyer and Lagares: I don’t believe there should be a paved and pristine path for them to check in for 500-600 ab’s… bringing in talented players (some of whom may make good money) is a very good sign, in my opinion. The speculation of 5 big league outfielders for 3 spots is a healthier option than 1 big league outfielder for 3 spots—- and that’s been the position for too much of the past several years. Going forward, I believe there’s some question about the quality and projection for each of those guys, without regard to their pay rate. You need to look at some of the lineups for the past 20 games and the production from those positions to realize that the better side of the coin is “more talent”.
Certainly Wheeler should be available in the right deal.
Perhaps having 5 guys who deserve to play 140 games is a better problem than having 1 guy. But the key word is problem. It may be a better problem to have a knife sticking out of your chest than having 50 bullet holes in the same area. But let’s not pretend the knife isn’t a problem…
I didn’t see what was posted on Met.com
I just think it was the perfect storm of how instant media and.instant feedback can cause uncomfortable situations. Hopefully they’ll learn from this. However, Jay is who he is. Maybe he dropped his phone in the toilet again
As I see the Mets are looking for another CF’er, I’m a little confused as to Lagares’ status. Why isn’t he being traded? Is it just that he’s hurt?
There were early reports last night (Martino?) that had Lagares going in the deal for Gomez.
Even with the elbow injury, I’d expect Lagares to have at least some trade value.
5 outfielders for 3 spots…. ??? OK… let’s assume you need a bench and a rotation of “imperfect players?—so…I don’t see that as an automatic “problem”.
If Cuddyer doesn’t like it, then he is a problem—I believe he’d adapt, although it’s tougher for a younger player like Lagares to thrive with limited ab’s.
It does create opportunity for other decisions. Anytime you have lot’s of well valued Fungible Assets, it creates/allows for more good outcomes.
Take a look at Championship teams— very strong bench/rotation guys…often, they are “starter level”. It doesn’t work without the right players and strong management.
Lots of conflicting info, some pointing to financials being an issue rather than the injury. Of course, that’s coming from a Milwaukee beat writer so take that with a humongous glacier of salt.
Still, I agree with the opinion that this was all really a perfect storm of crap leading to a very sad situation with Flores being stuck on the field like that. It’s somewhat understandable that Collins wouldn’t pull a player without getting confirmation from the FO. On the other hand, it’s hard to believe that Collins was so oblivious that he couldn’t immediately put fans randomly and spontaneously cheering for Flores together with the Mets pushing for a trade less than 48 hours from the deadline. C’mon,
I think the truth will come out eventually, but obviously the Brewers are still trying to trade Gomez so they won’t simply concede that there’s a hip problem.
Rob,
At a press conference before today’s game which I saw during the first inning of today’s game and told Brian in the chatter what Collins said, he says that David Wright told him in the fifth inning about the trade. That’s when Collins went and told Flores that he hasn’t been officially traded yet. That’s the highlights that we saw on SportsCenter of Collins putting his arm around Flores. So, if Collins says that Wright told him in the fifth inning, what didn’t he know?
So now do the Mets have to trade Flores because he won’t want to be with the team, or keep him because Alderson can’t try to trade him again?
Will anyone else trade for him? We all know there’s no crying in baseball.
Even for an organization known for being unable to walk and chew gum, the past 24 Hours have been record setting. it starts at the top with Alderson being a complete hack. No one will want to deal with him. His FO staff, apparently a bunch of egghead geniuses are unable to even figure out how to get any kind of info the Collins dressed up in his clown suit with red rubber nose. No one tell me anything, yuk yuk yuk. And then there is Jay Horwtiz, the incapable great great grandfather media relations, trying to manage a 21st century world with memories of chatting with Babe Ruth. This team is a complete sham from the owners who have the anti-Midas touch (everything they touch turns to shit), to an outdated dinosaur of a GM, to a coach who seems utterly shut out of what is happening in the organization even to the point of things effecting play on the diamond. And how is anybody supposed to actually play baseball under these conditions? Well apparently, we can’t. What a disgraceful joke of a team.
Chris, if you wrote four more pages, I would have read every word.
Your reference of the Wilpons reminds me of a movie, but can’t remember the name. Ralph Macchio and his friends go to the track and bet on a horse. The horse is winning when this guy named Murray comes into the picture yelling the horse’s name and cheering it on. Macchio destroys the tickets right there, while the horse is winning and pulls the tickets from his friend’s hand and destroys them too. His friend asks why and Macchio tells him that they’ve been “mushed”. “Huh?” his friend replies. Macchio explains that whatever Murray his interest in goes bad or loses. They look up and see their horse finished fourth.
Feel better now?
Not yet
Carlos Gomez was the perfect fit but he was only going to be under control for a year and half. A strong injury possibility that would result in lost time would be very costly for the Mets in that time span so if that was their reason then I will accept it.
Bruce is the new rumor but not sure how he fits in to the over all future plan but putting him in left field with his power bat would help in 2015. They could sort out the overage with trades this winter.
The positions of need are SS and CF. Castro could be a cheap buy. R Davis (Det) or Venable still works. I like Davis and a cheap Castro.
Damn, I had the wrong Tiger outfielder.
Boy, do I feel foolish!
Excellent post, Brian. One of your best. I personally think Sandy blew it. Not only did Gomez make the most sense (righty, not a rental, could play CF and allow Lagares to get TJ surgery, bat lead off and let Grandy move down in the lineup), but Parra might have been the second best fit and now Milwaukee refuses to deal with the Mets. Ugh.
The Mets need to now trade for Marlon Byrd and forget about Jay Bruce. The Mets at this point cannot afford to trade any of the pitchers when you consider that Montero may need surgery, Colon is pitching his way out of the rotation and the only other pitcher capable to be part of the rotation next year will be Fullmer if Montero needs surgery.
Trade for Byrd while giving up a AA player who is not Fullmer.
Like the Byrd option. As for Wheeler, he’s not a viable starter till 2017 which leaves plenty of development time for guys like Fullmer, Gsellman, Molina, Cessa, Ynoa, etc. The Mets are deep in pitching.
These comments are pretty funny considering the Mets clinched the Eastern Division today. Anybody have second thoughts about Sandy, Terry, Wilmer, Gomez or Cespedes?
It’s disturbing that you would read an article from two months ago that was proven absolutely right and decide, on the night that the Mets clinch the division title, to make your first comment at this site and then choose to go negative on the comments of said article.