It’s no secret that Terry Collins will never invite me to a party at his house, making the massive assumption he’s even aware of my existence. And that’s okay. The last thing he should be concerned about is what bloggers think of him. He should be much more concerned about what the people in the clubhouse and the people in the front office think of him. And it’s fair to say he’s done a very good job of making sure those two constituencies like him, since that’s allowed him to keep cashing those checks.
You are what your record says you are, said a wise man (or Bill Parcells), and this year’s record says Collins is leading one of the top 10 teams in baseball. Good for him. You can’t judge a manager solely on his record but you can’t completely ignore the record, either. Proponents of Collins should rightly put this in the pro column.
You hear smart people suggest that Collins should be a Manager of the Year contender. So, what’s the case for Collins? Here’s a list in no particular order. Feel free to add on any that are missing.
Record
No dissent in clubhouse
Handles the media well
Follows orders from his superiors without making waves
We’ve already talked about the record so let’s go on to the next item. There are somewhere around 38 people in the clubhouse right now and while the team is winning, there’s simply no way to play 38 guys on a regular basis. Shoot, Dilson Herrera has been in two games and had one PA – he walked – since rejoining the club. On the surface, it’s extremely impressive that no one’s complaining right now.
But dig a little deeper and my thought is that it’s just not that remarkable. Who in the clubhouse is a trouble maker? Who is this team’s Jonathan Papelbon or Yasiel Puig? In years passed you might have said Jon Niese but Collins has given him the ball and generally not yanked him around as he’s done in previous seasons.
Collins has the most unassuming, low-maintenance star in the game in David Wright. Curtis Granderson is generally recognized as one of the nicest guys in the game. Bartolo Colon is well-liked. Michael Cuddyer has always been praised as a good teammate. Daniel Murphy will run through a wall for you. Juan Uribe fits in the Granderson-Cuddyer mode. Lucas Duda just wants to be left alone. Jacob deGrom and Travis d’Arnaud never make any waves. Has anyone ever heard anything bad about Kelly Johnson? It’s extremely safe to say that Wilmer Flores wants to be here and is not doing anything to rock the boat. There’s zero reason for Ruben Tejada to be upset with him. Rookies like Michael Conforto and Noah Syndergaard know better than to upset the apple cart.
That’s 14 guys, including all of the team’s stars outside of Yoenis Cespedes and Jeurys Familia. And before we go overboard giving him credit for those two guys, they both essentially were no-brainer decisions. After the big news of the Flores deal falling though and the angst of getting a hitter, it’s not like they weren’t going to play Cespedes all of the time. And with the two guys ahead of him in the pecking order unavailable, there wasn’t much choice but to give Familia a shot at closer.
My opinion is that every single manager in the big leagues could have handled this particular clubhouse and there were no shortage of MLB coaches and minor league managers who could have done the same. It’s like praising Caleb Sturgis for going 41-for-41 on extra points in 2014, before they moved the kick back.
The next one on the list is not so easily ignored. Handling the media is a big part of the job in New York and it’s easier said than done. We’ve seen plenty of instances where guys in flyover country couldn’t handle the media and the demands on the coasts are significantly harder. Shoot, just this year we saw Bryan Price melt down on this very topic in Cincinnati, population 297,000. Kudos to Collins here.
The final one is maddening. There’s little doubt that the reason Collins is still here is because he works well with his boss, Sandy Alderson. It’s hard to be a good manager without actually having a managerial position. Whatever job we have in life, there are certain things where we have to hold our nose and do it if we wish to remain employed. So a tip of the hat to Collins for doing what he had to do.
However, it’s my position that we can acknowledge it without actually liking it.
It’s my firm belief that there should be creative friction between the manager and general manager. There isn’t a single person on earth who is right 100% of the time. If Collins is convinced at the end of Spring Training that Tejada is a better shortstop than Flores, then he should have the freedom – or the balls – to write Tejada’s name in the lineup card.
My overwhelming preference if for a manager to fight for what he believes in and there’s no evidence in the public domain that Collins does this much at all. Of course, Collins might be yelling, pleading and conniving with Alderson behind closed doors. But if that were indeed the case, don’t you think we would have heard at least once that Collins actively advocated for something and changed Alderson’s mind? Or do you believe that Alderson is such a control freak that he can’t let his subordinates have a single public victory in five years?
Now, here are some reasons for being down on our manager:
Slavish devotion to matchups
Poor bullpen deployment
Willingness to put out a “C-“ lineup by resting three or more regulars on the same day
The fact that he doesn’t do anything to push the team forward
There is a difference between the first two items. Last night, trailing 4-2 in the ninth inning, Collins brought on Tyler Clippard, despite the fact that Clippard had pitched the day before and throughout his career (including his time with the Mets) he’s struggled versus the Braves. A rested Bobby Parnell, who has three scoreless outings since his return from the DL, would have been a better choice. And if you were too scared to use Parnell, Addison Reed would have been a better pick, too. While he also pitched the game before, he’s pitching much better recently than Clippard and did not have the history against the Braves.
While this is but one example, it’s hardly an isolated incident. Collins continually makes bullpen choices that make us scratch our heads. At least he’s seemingly mastered that if the Mets have a lead close and late, you go Reed-Clippard-Familia. It’s just all other scenarios that leave us holding our breath or doing a facepalm.
For years, the rallying cry for Collins was, “They play hard for him!” One of the many side benefits of winning is that we don’t hear that on a regular basis anymore. It just seems this is the MLB equivalent of a participation ribbon. Can we pat Collins on the head when we note that they play hard for him? Okay, it’s definitely better than the alternative but not anything to hang your hat on. Besides, did Murphy play hard when he stopped running on what he thought was an inning-ending double play ball? Did Cespedes play hard when he didn’t move an inch on a ball that he thought was a homer and ended up staying in the park and getting away from Juan Lagares? Did Colon play hard when he went to the plate with no intention of even swinging at a pitch? When Collins gets guys to stop doing things like this, he’ll have actually succeeded in this “play hard” bit and done something to move the team forward.
At the end of the day, the Mets are in excellent shape to make the playoffs, which is where we all want to be. It seems overly pessimistic to pick on the manager’s alleged faults when this is the case. My goal right now today is not to start a “Fire TC!” campaign. Instead, this is to share my opinion that the team is winning with Collins, not because of him, and that’s not much of a case for Manager of the Year.
I have said TC is a lousy manager for the the last three years! I don’t care how
good the mets are right now this team is winning despite TC because of the
mets front office trading for, drafting, and signing talented players not because
of TC’s managing skills! Now we will see if TC is really a good or bad manager
with the playoffs looming!
Terry Collins isn,t a good manager he takes out good pitchers to often & keeps playing with players playing all the time.
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…”the team is winning with Collins, not because of him.”
This has to be better than the team winning *despite* him, right?
I don’t think that I actively “disliked” Collins, though I was never really a fan of him. But I mean, winning may breed short memories in this case. Beyond his obsession with matchups to a fault, what really gets me are his “C- lineups” you mentioned. It’s like he picks the most ridiculous times to do that, too.
Even so, we only need to look down one spot in the standings to see that it could really be much, much worse. That’s a manager failing with the media, with the clubhouse, and seemingly all of his in-game decision making.
My hand is up! I don’t like many game moves he makes and more importantly the reasoning behind them. Only recently has he realized the bullpen is more efficient when roles are assigned. He still has a tendancy to over use his best three back end relievers in unnecessary innings. In general, he is a poor bullpen manager.
Just because I don’t like his managing doesn’t mean he should not get an extension. He has been masterful with his ” non C ” lineups. He is setting his lineup following the mantra of the “maximizing your lineup school” with the wrinkle of alternating his lefty, righty batters. He is good at planning but unfortunately not so good at thinking on his feet. He has handled the Harvey matter well in the media and kept it out of the clubhouse. That could have brought this team down. NY media are unscrupulous for a story.
The goal was to make the playoffs and he will apparently accomplish this. Therefore I see no reason to change managers.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/nationals/manager-matt-williams-lost-the-clubhouse-will-he-lose-his-job/2015/09/26/5244beca-647b-11e5-9757-e49273f05f65_story.html
I read this article about the impact the manager has on the clubhouse.
It was printed the day before the Harper-Papelbon scuffle.
This topic eats me alive. There are a lot of things I don’t like. And then I hear about players who think the world of him, all the beat writers think he’s done excellent, other managers do as well. On MLB radio, from top to bottom including ex players and GMs and color guys all endorse TC as a great skipper. They are all closer to the team than I. With the security from my chair, he mystifies me, but what do I really know?
So as much as I scream thinking about his in-game moves, he has delivered our first winning season in some time (why hasn’t that been a story?) and is on the cusp of leading the NL East in the post season. On that kind of total accomplishment perhaps the old adage is wrong: it is about the destination and not about the journey after all.
Do I need to say a word? If the comment says TexasGusCC on top, it’s bringing up fundamentals, accountability, and focus, three things I haven’t seen on the Mets in too many years to count.
Collins is great man. Give him Horowitz’ job when Jay finally retires and he would be in his element. I keep asking for someone to bring up a great managerial move Collins made, ever, but I keep getting the “the players love him” answer.
Sorry Gus but Collins as a caretaker is perfect for the job that was assigned to him. There is no need to rock the boat when you’re asked to baby a team until it matures. Manager of the year? Never! The Met’s win because their talent level has finally come to fruition. Can you imagine how much further along this team would of been if Maddon was managing this team? He would of rested Harvey throughout the season with the thought that if and when the team makes the playoffs you would have him as a starter without the concerns over his innings limits. He puts his players in the best possible position to win. He doesn’t waste his pen if the team is getting blown out. He knows when to give a starter a day off. He takes responsibility if he makes a mistake that causes his team a chance to win. TC has none of those qualities. His in game managing is perfect in his mind. It’s the players not executing that’s the problem.
For all the cons, I am still afraid of what Collins will bring to the postseason games, especially late in games. But I like the man himself. I think he’s done a good job creating an atmosphere of winning. And I believe his “put up or shut up” routine from a few months ago had an honest impact on their winning stretches.
That being said, I can’t say I’d keep him in place if another qualified manager was available. Sadly, those seem few and far between though.
I loved Gil, Davey, and Bobby V.
I see Terry in the Yogi category.
I think he gets way too much focus and abuse for a lot of small details. The big picture has been very, very good.
And I actually don’t think he’s a terrible tactician, either. To me, bringing in Clippard was the right decision in a close game. Parnell should not even make the postseason roster — that’s a move that would have had me shaking my head. Different strokes.
Love how you write something critiquing the fan base and everyone steps up to defend themselves. Hell, it’s why I’m here too.
I don’t really want to bash Terry, but all of the cries for Manager of the Year are ludicrous. He still makes questionable calls with the bullpen and the bench, and definitely loves to trot out the C-team every so often.
Sorry Pete, but if Madden were managing this team, Alderson would probably have been forbidden to make the moves he did around the trade deadline. Joe is getting 5 mil per year. You can’t say he would have rested Harvey when I believe that decision was allowed to fall by the wayside by upper management. Madden has been given powers in Chicago that TC simply does not have here. I doubt that Madden would have been given the freedom he needs in NYC to manage as he does in Chicago. That said, I am not enamored with Terry’s use of the bullpen either.
I, too, have questioned many of TC’s field decisions. However, there’s a lot more to managing than what occurs during the game. TC deserves credit for a cohesive clubhouse and for the players keeping their focus playing in the fishbowl that is New York City. Would the clubhouse be cohesive without TC? Depends on who’d be replacing him. Firebrands like Davey Johnson or a Billy Martin, say? Not a chance. Sometimes it’s the things you don’t do that matter as well. One thing is for certain – this year he’s persevered through a very volatile wave of varying team performance, varying individual performance, and a remarkable degree of varying personnel. The boat is in first place and the helmsman deserves his share of the credit.
I completely disagree that the Mets this year would be worse if at the beginning of the year you replaced Collins with either Davey Johnson or Billy Martin. Those are two of the greatest managers in history and both have a track record for coming in and getting immediate results with new teams.
It’s a little known fact, but TC is a big Elvis Costello fan! Just the other day he was overheard singing –
“Why do you have to say that there’s always someone who can do it better than I can,
Don’t you think that I know walking on the water don’t make me a miracle man?”
And while thinking about TC’s Manager of the Year case, another Elvis song from the same album comes to mind:
“Why don’t you show me
‘Cause I’ve tried and I’ve tried, and I’m still mystified
I can’t do it anymore and I’m not satisfied”
As I walk on through this wicked world,
Searching for light in the darkness of insanity,
I ask myself, Is all hope lost?
Is there only pain, and hatred, and misery?