The Mets 2016 season is over, but there’s still baseball on TV. It may be a small consolation for most of you reading this, but at least for this writer, baseball is better than the alternative. Pathetically, this guy would rather watch a local Varsity game than the Super Bowl. There are four really good teams still playing meaningful baseball, and even if none of them is wearing blue and orange, there are still some compelling reasons to tune in.
1. You have to root for the Cubs and Indians. Their poor fans haven’t seen championships in their lifetimes, except for a few really old guys in Cleveland.
2. The Cubs are an awesome team with young stars on the field and some terrific pitchers.
3. The Indians are built on dominant young pitching with just enough offense – a formula that we’d like to see work for our team.
4. The Blue Jays are easy to watch. Toronto is a beautiful city full of the nicest people and their lineup is chock full of power hitters.
5. It was so much fun to root against the Nationals and watch them come up short last night.
6. Miss them or resent them, there are a lot of former Mets still playing – R.A. Dickey, Josh Thole, Joe Smith, and Justin Turner.
7. It’s a chance to watch pitcher’s duels between top arms like Clayton Kershaw, Jake Arrieta, Corey Kluber, and Jon Lester.
8. There’s always a chance for a dramatic bat-flipping walk off with clutch power hitters like Jose Bautista, Kris Bryant,Josh Donaldson, Anthony Rizzo, Adrian Gonzalez or even Justin Turner.
9. It’s two more weeks of baseball, which still beats watching once a week football or pre-season basketball.
10. It’s a chance to scout potential free agents and trade targets for the Mets. If we can’t keep Yoenis Cespedes, fellow right-handed power hitters Edwin Encarnacion and Jose Bautista would make good plan B’s.. And if Cleveland’s pop-gun offense proves to be their undoing, perhaps they’ll be in the market for a lefty power hitter like, say, Jay Bruce?
*Bonus – There’s always a chance Chase Utley gets hit by a pitch.
The *bonus would be the best thing i could watch at this point
I wouldn’t want to see the Cubs win before the Mets, because then their rebuild was better than ours. Sorry.
Love the city of Cleveland but like the Blue Jays also. Like the Dodgers but lothe the smug Maddons of the North side of Chicago.
4 months to Pitchers and Catchers.
tick, tick, tick, tick, tick
The Cubs rebuild was clearly better than ours. They cratered and got the draft picks. Look at the age of their infield. Also, management willing and able to spend aggressively.
Why watch the playoffs?
Because we love baseball.
And as Jon Snow so often reminds us, “Winter is coming.”
I don’t think it was better than ours. I believe that they have better hitters but nowhere near the pitching depth the Mets have and soon the Mets prospects will be be bubbling to the surface.
Too, the Mets are spending money now and buying the bats. Epstein gets props on:
– the Bryant pick because back then all the buzz was Bryant was defensively challenged and they should take Jonathan Gray.
– hoodwinking Beane into giving up Addison Russell.
– being active on the trade market for large and small trades where Alderson was usually swinging for fences, like his hitters.
Last two seasons, after both teams began to compete, the Cubs have won 23 games more than the Mets.
They won 97 and 103, while the Mets won 90 and 87.
While playing in a more competitive division.
You can say all you want about how and why, but those are irrefutable facts. And not at all a narrow margin.
And yet head-to-head they are 9-9 the past two years, with the Mets 9-2 against them since acquiring Yoenis Cespedes.
And what is their record on Wednesday afternoons?
You are quoting a meaningless 18 game sample size when there’s a 324 game one available?
That’s a dubious tact to take.
You were making a big deal about irrefutable facts. The head-to-head record falls into that category, too.
The Mets have a worse record in part due to not having their guys healthy. I’m supposed to feel the Mets are inferior because they went 25-35 in 2015 when their lineup had guys like John Mayberry Jr and Eric Campbell batting fourth and fifth? Or how they went 25-30 this year in May and June when Kevin Plawecki, James Loney, Matt Reynolds and Ty Kelly were getting starts?
Give me a 100% healthy Mets squad (with Cespedes) against a 100% healthy Cubs squad and I’ll take my chances with the Mets.
+1
+2
Position by position:
1. Lester, Arrietta, Hendricks etc, v. DeGrom, Thor, Harvey –> Draw
2. xxx v yyy –> Cubs
3. Rizzo v Duda –> Cubs
4. Zobrist v Walker –> Cubs
5. Bryant v Reyes, Flores, Wright –> Cubs
6. Reed v Cabrera –> Mets
7. Schwarber (Soler) v Ces –> Mets
8. Fowler v Grandy (Lags, Nimmo) –> Cubs
9. Heyward v Conforto (Grandy, DeAza) –> Cubs
Pen –> Cubs
Positional depth –> Cubs
Pitching depth –> Mets
overall rebuild –> Cubs
I don’t believe that’s the best way to go about it.
And even if it is, you’re telling me you’d be indifferent to having a healthy Mets rotation versus a healthy Cubs rotation? Sorry, can’t agree with that. We saw a healthy Mets rotation dominate in the NLCS.
Id rather have the Mets rotation. But the numbers say what they do. The Cubs have a better rotation. And I think you would be one of the few that think the Mets rebuild outdid the Cubs. At every level, thet team is set for years, while we need to fix things all over the place yet again.
Well, it’s not that I think the Mets “outdid” the Cubs. It’s just that I don’t think that they are the clear weak sister in this comparison.
Chris, I think you’re overstating a Cubs staff that all overachieved. I mean, Lester wasn’t this good in his prime and Hendriks came out of nowhere, but you cannot compare the Mets starters and bullpen, sorry.
Regarding your lineup, even though we know it’s the Cubs’ strength, I have to disagree with the Walker/Zobrist evaluation and Cabrera really outplayed Russell this year.
Sorry guys, as utterly painful as it is to say, it is 100% clear the Cubs rebuild well outpaced the Mets so-so effort.
The Cubs are set for many years with already outstanding, and yet to reach top performance level players: Bryant, Baez, Rizzo, Schwarber, Reed will form the core of outstanding players for many years ahead. Add Heyward to this as a long time contract and imagine an infield of Rizzo, Baez, Reed, and Bryant and an outfield of Schwarber and Heyward for the next 5+ years. The Mets have no proven MLB-level sustainability at any infield position except say Rosario if he pans out (I love the kid and cant wait). I love the Mets rotation. But the concerns of whether we will *ever* see a single turn of Noah, DeGrom, Harvey, Matz, Wheeler are genuine. Promise and delivery of the goods are two wildly different things. The Cubs had the best rotation in the NL, overachieved or not…it simply is true. The Cubs outhit, outscored, outpitched, outwon, and outmanaged the Mets at every level this year. Im not sure where the impetus to think anything different is coming for next year.
What could turn the tide? Is Conforto the 3 hitter we think he is or the next Ike Davis? Is TJ Rivera a serious MLB level player? Is Brandon Nimmo more than a bench guy and a big smile? Who on earth is TdA? I see far more questions both long and short term for the Mets, and truthfully, it kills me to say it.
The Cubs rebuild took the opposite approach. Develop young hitters and find pitchers through trades and FA. Pitchers are more fragile than hitters, but also more expensive. I still think Alderson’s plan will work. We have a two year window to get it done and I believe we will. A healthy Mets rotation (even 3 or 4 out of 5) plus Cespedes, a few supporting bats and a solid bullpen is a World Series caliber team. I believe we can win one of the next two WS, but short of increasing payroll significantly to keep the band together, I’m not sure it’s sustainable.
Watching good baseball is always a pleasure. There are any number of thrilling players still active in the playoffs. Plus, I get a chance to watch some AL players that I usually don’t see during the season.
Another reason, is that I get to root for Justin Turner. The Brooklyn Dodgers were my team as a kid, but this LA team means nothing to me. But, I always want Turner to do well as a reminder of the poor/stupid/incomprehensible decision-making that went into the Mets non-tendering him. At least with RA Dickey the Mets made a trade which got them value(!) in return. They didn’t even get 1/2 dozen baseballs for Turner. So, I hope Turner does well in order to remind fans of the way the Mets screwed up.
When I look at Turner — his transformed body, and aggressive approach, and the insane jump in his slugging numbers — I think PEDS.
I can’t prove it, of course.
He gave Marlon Byrd a lot of credit for his turn around. The conversation probably began, “I know a guy . . . .”
I cant help but think the exact same thing.
JP…do you have “Steroid Thoughts” about Wright??? He Hulked in his mid 20’s…and he’s continually broken down.
I’ve always suspect PED’s
No way, I cannot root for the Cubs.
ditto.
Go Tribe
Epstein has done a helluva a Job with the Cubs…lots of “hits” on his highest leverage moves for the young positional Players.
Are his pitching additions and trades overlooked???? Arieta for Scott Feldman turned out “evan better!!!!” than Kazmir for Zambrano!!!!! The Starting staff may not be Gas Burner Sexy, but they have good pitching!!!…and he really hasn’t “missed” on a single one!
We can wax on about the Mets starters— combined, they have a very large “to-do list” versus the actual accomplishments…. I do believe and hope they have a lot more going forward than the Cubs.
With that, I like the Mets over the next 3 years better than the Cubs… I believe the Mets will have enough pitching to scrabble a Roster that will continuously compete. Both teams are fairly well set on their strengths, and they both have similar exposure to failed pitching—doesn’t everyone!!!
Yes, exactly.
Tons of credit to the Cubs for hitting a home run on the Jake Arrieta trade. But is that really part of the philosophical discussion on which rebuild was better?
Were the Cubs saying, Yeah, we’ll draft hitters and then trade for a fifth-round pick who was 20-25 with a 5.46 ERA and watch him turn into a Cy Young candidate?
On the same line of thought, the Kyle Hendricks trade is irrelevant to their rebuild as well because he was an unheralded 8th round pick and has also blossomed into a Cy Young candidate?
So is Yoenis Cespedes irrelevant to Sandy’s success because he went from a career ~.790 OPS guy pre-Mets to a .900 OPS guy with the Mets? Or how about Addison Reed?
Are you saying the GM should get no credit when the player over exceeds?
You’d have to put deGrom into the questionable territory, too. But to address your last point – absolutely not. In my last post I said “tons of credit” for the Arrieta deal. But there’s your organizational philosophy, what you planned for, and what you got lucky with.
To me, the difference in the two approaches to the rebuild is that the Cubs weren’t afraid to bottom out to get top 3 draft picks and they focused on hitters over pitchers, with the assumption they could buy them on the FA market, like Lester. The Mets were going to use pitching to jump start their rebuild. Perhaps only because they had it already in the system, which certainly helped.
In my mind, Lester is part of the Cubs rebuild because that was always part of the plan. And on the same idea, the Mets used one of their high draft pick pitchers to acquire Cespedes and then used the money generated from a winning season to keep him. That seemed to be part of their plan, too.
The Cubs reap all of the benefits of the Arrieta deal and Epstein ultimately deserves credit for it. But, if you are trying to determine for future benefit if you want a rebuild to focus first on hitters or pitchers — I’m not sure the Cubs way should get credit for Arrieta.
Actually, from the beginning of his tenure, it looked like Epstein was planning to go for reclamation pitching projects (although one could look at dumpster diving as him trying to tank as well)
Here are the trades that i found that were similar to the Arrieta mold.
2011-2012 offseason
-Traded Sean Marshall for Travis Wood(25), former 2nd round pick with a career 4.18 ERA
-Signed Andy Sonnastine(29), with a career 5.26 ERA
-Signed Paul Maholm(30), former 1st round pick, with a career 4.36 ERA
-Traded Carlos Zambrano for Chris Volstad(25), former 1st round pick with a career 4.59 ERA
-Signed Ryan Rowland-Smith(28), with a career 4.57 ERA
2012 season:
-Trade Marlon Byrd for Michael Bowden(24), former top 100 prospect
-Signed Justin Germano, career 5.02 ERA
-Traded Maholm and Reed Johnson for Arodys Vizcaino(21), injured top 100 prospect
-Traded Dempster for Kyle Hendricks
-Traded Soto for Jake Brigham(24), former 6th round pick
2012-2013 offseason
-Traded Brigham for Barret Loux(24), former 1st round pick
2013 season
-Traded Garza for a bunch of players, including Justin Grimm, former 5th round pick with a career 6.73 ERA
-Traded Alfonso Soriano for Corey Black(21), 4th round pick
-Signed Daniel Bard, former 1st round pick
Over that same period, he signed a few FA SPs, but never for more than 1 year or more than 6-7 mil. He also didn’t trade for any top pitching prospects.
Cycling through many projects to find 1 or 2 gems seemed to be their plan from the start, although they were probably expecting emeralds at best but got lucky and plucked some diamonds
Good information – thanks for the research.
Both teams were faithful to their re-build plans/design. They each built a base of strength, and then added to it situationally.
The Mets rebuild was on the back of pitching that Sandy inherited: Harvey, deGrom, Matz, Dickey (traded for Syndergaard), Familia.
Epstein did not have anything close to that luxury.
Bingo.
Alderson didn’t pick pitching over hitting, he drafted Nimmo, Cecchini, Smith, and Conforto. The pitching was there already. The big thing that the current regime has shown, top-to-bottom, is an ability to develop pitchers. The amount of guys who have showed up and done well at the major league level from jump street is outstanding on a percentage basis. This year alone you can add Fulmer, Lugo, and Gsellman to that list. It’s enough guys now to figure it is not luck, and it is very impressive.