Rumors are the lifeblood of the offseason and there’s no better place for them than the Winter Meetings. There’s been some buzz about Matt Harvey being on the block. At first we heard about him for an unspecified reliever. Now there’s talk (supposedly not serious) about a swap of Harvey for Jurickson Profar, a middle infelder who at one point was the top prospect in baseball. Injuries have sidetracked Profar to this point in his career.
Profar is out of options and would need to be kept on the MLB roster. He spent most of last year in Triple-A, where he put up an .811 OPS for Round Rock in the PCL. Last year, Profar qualified for arbitration as a Super Two player. He’s arbitration eligible for the second time this offseason. He’s under team control through the year 2020.
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This is a tough one because both players suck…
Put a gun to my head and i’d rather take Profar and his sub 1m salary (or cut him during Spring Training) and reinvest the rest rather than Harvey at 6-7m, but if given the choice i’d rather do another Sandy 2017 special and trade him for a blah relief “prospect” in A+.
As a Met fan for 50 plus years I get more and more disgusted with their decisions. Rumor or not this idea really stinks. This is one of the reasons why we remain subpar and the Yankees have the guts to go for the NL MVP. Another pennant in NY but not at Citifield
To Bob. Why does the idea stink? Harvey isn’t a difference maker any more. Harvey was awesome I get it and he meant so much to us Met fans. But is it clouding your judgement? I hope he regains the form that made such a bulldog. But hoping isn’t going to get the Mets into the playoffs. It’s time to turn the page. He’s a Scott Boras client. And you know how he feels about the Mets organization. As for the trade itself I’d continue shopping and look for something a little more promising. If Profar is out of options why help the Rangers. No need to rush this.I’m sure Sandy can and will find a better and cheaper option for a 3 or 4 SP than Harvey. Maybe even within the organization.
I don’t think Profar is an answer for Harvey. Id rather get a good relief pitcher or prospect.
Didnt see the “who cares” button, which would have been my choice.
Rangers not excited for a change of scenery deal becuase Harvey on last year. Imagine that…not even good enough for a guy who cant break AAA.
2018 gonna be a long year.
Profar was the #1 Prospect in Baseball…a long time ago. He has considerable ( not very) succcessful at the MLB level. In his second year at pcl, he has an 811 ops.
It feels like I’d be trading Harvey at his most Undervalued point…for another Gavin Chechinni.
Profar would be a welcome addition to the team’s infield mix.
Yet I believe trading Harvey at this point is not effective. Yes a salary dump for the Mets, but one less starter. Profar without options puts the Rangers in a hole so yes to Profar but at not at Matt’s potential upside.
Some player (lower minor league)sounds much more reasonable.
Why not just get in the tardis, go back in time, and non-tender Harvey if that’s the way we feel about him?
I keep him and hope he rebounds. Maybe he can get flipped at the deadline. Maybe he actually pitches well.
I’d never make this trade.
It’s Bizzaro…. the only reason to tender Harvey was to hold him as a lottery ticket based on performance that would add to the team with wins and downstream trade value (or for Keeping).
This trade works (or any trade of Harvey) for the Mets only if they parlay the savings into a Lance Lynn or Alex Cobb signing. Profar , with his three more years of team control, could be a find. It appears the Rangers think the price is too steep.
Seems like if they don’t believe in the guy bouncing back, they shouldn’t have signed him. The 6million saved could have been used to sign a Reed,Shaw, etc.
The entire complexion of the off-season seems to have changed: 1) Syracuse? Nice!, 2) Calloway? Nice!…then we drop off a cliff into the Mets off-season roster abyss highlighted/amplified by the Gordon/Stanton deals.
Idiots. Trade Harvey for a washed up middle infielder or a reliever. Stupid. If you really want to trade him let him start the year see how he does and then trade him at the deadline . If he sucks you get the same bag of balls you get now. If he succeeds you get A LOT more value .
Agreed. Harvey is a huge unknown in 2018…he could range from serviceable #4 type to the 6.70 train wreck that he was last year. Nonetheless, the Mets should not be in the business of giving away decent pitching innings. I’d rather keep him and roll the dice, unless, of course, there is information that is not public that would just make it better for both sides to part ways. In any event, I can’t see a team providing enough for the Mets to bite. Baltimore, perhaps, but I’d need to get back Britton or O’Day, very unlikely.
I’m not trading Harvey, who could very well be Comeback Player of the Year for a kid who has demonstrated he can’t hit major league pitching. If Texas wants to talk about Harvey, they can start with their hard throwing reliever, Keona Kela and their #2 prospect, 2B/OF Willie Calhoun.
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Oh, I suppose if they can turn Harvey into an impact reliever then it’s okay, I guess.
But Sandy traded for 11 righty relievers last season. Does he know now — has he always known? — that they all suck?
And we’ll need to go out and get a reliable starter, which could be a good thing.
I’ll wait and see, but I don’t have confidence in this organization.
Its not the organization Jimmy. Its the owners. Zero confidence.
I include Sandy in this, and his staff, and everyone who drove the minor league system into the ground. The owners are the root problem. But Sandy hasn’t been smart enough to overcome mid-level financial support.
Yankees make another deal. Mets content to stand still.
I look at the Nationals talking to Arietta. Here’s a team that’s not trying to get into the playoffs, not seeking meaningful games in September, not hoping to outlast their division “rivals” (in quotes); they are trying to figure out how to win a World Championship. That’s the aspiration in Washington. The Mets are miles away from that kind of thinking.
It’s a hard time right now. I’m forced to pivot. The MLB version of the game has never been slower or more boring than it is today. HRs and K’s and pitching changes. That’s okay, there are other versions of the beautiful game being played at a variety of levels. And it’s crazy to invest too much in my favorite team. I’ll root, I’ll read, I’ll watch, I’ll analyze — but the level of hope/passion/affection is as low as the deRoulette Years. This organization doesn’t deserve the Full Jimmy and they will not get it.
The Full Jimmy!!!!!
Thank you, I’ll be here all week, two shows on Sunday.
The Mets choices don;t include FA big signings…we know that. They do not and should not include Prospects for Now Guys, because the “Now” of this team is questionable—- and there are not big gobs of prospects to trade.
The Mets have two clear Choices:
-Re-Build: Trade deGrom and Established relievers for Prospects. BTW, deGrom to Yankees is a perfect Match, for Torres and Clint Frazier, etc.(both PLUS)
-Pray to Contend: See if the SP’s recover, and add to it in June/July
That’s the actual Menu Folks—and it is Perfectly Logical….and Sandy is Praying to contend. No Big Powder will be spent until he knows what he has as SP’s|
This is not to forgive or defend their lack of MILB development, or the fact that they act like they’re the Pittsburgh Mets.
Noted.
However, it’s a terrible business plan. Eight years into Alderson coming here to run the business and the Mets are moving in the wrong direction. Ratings, ticket sales, budget, team performance all going South.
I honestly don’t think Anderson is even “praying” at this point. I don’t think he cares that deeply or considers “winning” a priority. Though I admit that he’d love a shot at the WC2. Here’s to a .500 record on September 1st!
The can legitimately contend in 2018 by simply making the necessary financial commitment. This commitment would not require them to join the top 5 payrolls in baseball, nor should it put them in a position to financially constrain them going forward. $40 million additional in 2018 salaries and a smart trade or two can get them into the top 5 NL teams and perhaps close enough to the Nats to strike if things go well. That is really all I could ask for.
Case in point – top bullpen arms under contract for 2017, Familia, Rojas, and Blevins, all are not controllable beyond 2018. So, they should be securing bullpen arms for the next two years by acquiring both a closer capable arm (Reed-type) and a 7th inning type. We know these guys require multi-year deals. So, 2018 is very deep & 2019 would be covered to a decent degree. Signing low level guys now will puth them in a tremendous quandry for 2019…likely when prices are higher and supply is lower. Is that what these guys want?
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TJ I agree but there are so many “ifs” for this team to succeed. We’ll see. Right now the payroll sits at 120 million as per Cot’s. What’s the budget for 2018? The Braves, Marlins and Phillies are all rebuilding. The Mets need to beat up these teams if they are going to contend for a wildcard. If Wright is healthy and can produce that would put this team in a much better financial position. But he hasn’t played in how long? If Cespedes can tone down his petulant attitude and listen to team trainers who continue to beg him to drink liquids so he doesn’t dehydrate and continue to suffer from his hamstrings that would be wonderful news. If the SP’s can stay relatively healthy the Mets have a good chance of making the playoffs. If they sign Bruce and one SP maybe just maybe we can say lets go Mets.
I can’t blame Jimmy for being disgusted at the Mets’ public display. While the winter hasn’t finished yet, what we hear leaves any fan feeling like an also-ran.
However, while I can play the game of if, if, if, let’s look at what we have for sure:
1. Two solid starting pitchers and lots of depth. Even if Wheeler is put in the pen where he belongs, Matz is undergoing the same rehab DeGrom had last year and so there is optimism that he can handle 25 starts. Harvey is a #5 starter, and Lugo, Gsellman, Montero are depth. The Mets do need a #3 starter.
1A. When they lock up Reed to go with the other back-end guys and add Wheeler, this bullpen will be rediculous.
2. A solid catching duo that performed well last year and with Plawecki getting more time could be better.
3. Everyone says Flores can only play 1B, so why are the Mets shopping for another guy to cover Smith? Flores is about as good, if not better than anything they are willing to pay for anyway.
4. The third need is a second baseman because while Flores may be able to play it for a period of time, if necessary, we can’t expect him to be proficient over the whole season.
5. Asdrubal. Certainly not a stud, but I’ll take MLB average.
6. A certain young stud that can make all the plays and will hit in time.
7. The best player on the team.
8. The pitchers need Lagares to be standing in the middle of the field. A few days ago, Alex Anthopoulos said that even upgrading one position defensively helps a pitching staff. Imagine upgrading two up the middle positions between Rosario and Lagares. Pillar, Kiermaier, Bradley Jr., Buxton and Almora, are all similar in offense to Lagares but appreciated by their teams. Lagares is a full run less on the ERA.
9. Have to wait for Conforto to come back no matter what.
So, there are three needs to this team left, as by far the biggest need has been addressed (Callaway). Signing Reed gets us closer, but I’m not as down on this group as others are.
Gus would you look to trade Harvey and his 7+ million as a number 5 and apply that money for a proven number 3 SP or a lead off hitter?
Pete, #3 pitchers should be more than $7MM. Remember, Bartolo Colon signed for $12.5MM with the Braves last year and that’s a 44 year old, 4/5 type.
Agree but then apply that money towards it. I read Alderson saying he’s open and listening to other teams so we’ll see.
Alderson said callaway and Eiland want Harvey, so he’s going nowhere.
You never know Chris
Lately the vibe I get from Sandy is very Joe Mac — the smug arrogance and very out of step with the times.
Sandy complains of “sticker shock” on an annual basis. It’s like clockwork. He misreads the market every year.
Our strategy is to let the big boys battle it out for the prime-time talent and try to find “value” in what’s left. We’re Pittsburgh and Milwaukee these days. The Wilpons deserve most of the blame.
Can the Mets still reach the WC2 — Game 163! — and make a run in the playoffs in 2018? Yes, they can. It’s possible. That’s how the MLB is rigged these days. Everybody’s in it except for the bottom 8-10 teams who aren’t even pretending to try.
Right now, I don’t believe you can look at any player in the Mets farm system and reasonably expect that he’ll make an impact in 2018. There’s no one there. Seriously, take a look. There’s nothing on the horizon, no help for this season. That’s not the Wilpons fault.
While I rag on Alderson often, this time I will stand up.
Alderson said early in the process that there are “alot of names out here”, and while many are coming off the board, Reed hasn’t and it’s my belief Alderson is playing in that ball field. If not, then, yes, he missed out.
Joel Sherman writes that Ian Kinsler has the Mets on his no trade list. No problem buddy, see you later. No big loss. If Kipnis is as good as I hear, I’d like him.
I agree with you on the Wild Card; it’s their goal. Mets right now are better than: Braves, Marlins, Phillies, Reds, Pirates, Padres, and Giants. That’s half the remaining teams. So, they have a head start into the top five. They can overtake the D’Backs, maybe Rockies and Brewers.
“Right now, I don’t believe you can look at any player in the Mets farm system and reasonably expect that he’ll make an impact in 2018.”
Which one would you rather have — Two guys who used up their eligibility in September of last year and likely ready to contribute from Opening Day or two guys in the minors who you expect up to make an impact at some point? If Rosario contributes like we hope and Smith keeps the power and gets the hits to fall in this time, the team will have two very recent grads of the farm system producing.
This strikes me as complaining for the sake of complaining.
You must be kidding Brian. Which would you *rather* have? Why is it a this or that situation? ALderson was building for long-term success. Thats not here. The pipeline is dry. The coffers are dry. Why is it that we cant have players that get called up…and some waiting to get called up? Isnt that what the pipeline is supposed to do?
Alderson has botched talent identification in a huge way. Nothing he is primarily responsible for is worth a lick of salt (except for Rosario on the international market). This is not complaining for the sake of complaining. This team has a serious deficiency of depth at every single spot on roster, except for AAAA never-gonna-be’s. We got a lot of that.
Here in the land of seeing through orange and blue colored glasses, we talk up the chits we have, but around the league, the Mets are a full scale laughing stock. Objectively, this team is one of the worst in baseball on the field and off the field. Alderson is looking at the player market like he wants to pay in chickens and IOUs. Year after year he is wildly out of touch with the cost of the business. No one wants to deal with him was one word out of Orlando because he is completely cracked about value. The he has the gall to tell the media to quit focusing on payroll…we’re dumpster diving for value!!!! Brand new cars dont cost 15k$ any more Sandy…. w a k e u p.
Good for you Sandy…stick to your own game…I hear the Brooklyn Dodgers are gonna be great again this coming season.
The Mets have graduated from their farm system in the past five years Matt Harvey, Zack Wheeler, Jacob deGrom, Noah Syndergaard, Steven Matz, Michael Fulmer, Jeurys Familia, Michael Conforto, Amed Rosario and Dominic Smith.
The Mets have injury issues, they have payroll issues and they have questions over who they decide to give playing time to. But when I think about trouble spots for the 2018 club, the farm system just isn’t one of them. They have five pre-arb players who if healthy (and given a chance) can provide an impact.
And while I don’t expect the next five years to match the previous five years, I do think the farm system will continue to produce MLB quality players at an average or better rate.
I do stand corrected with Conforto.
So little of that list is Alderson related. And so much is pitching. I just dont see that has much to be proud of in 8 years of work at the top. Every club needs depth near ready to go. Conforto went from college to the pros basically. I mean if baseball was only pitching then I suppose, but this team has no one at any position on the field with any depth. How can that be good? So graduating position players doesnt matter?
Alderson’s grade for talent eval and draft = D-
Brian of all the players you listed coming from the farm how many are Alderson picks? How many are from Minaya?
You can look it up as easily as I can.
My first point is that the farm system has been very productive the past five years and it’s not reasonable to think it’s going to continue that production indefinitely.
My second point is that at the time he was dismissed that everyone complained about Minaya’s farm system. And now people praise Minaya’s picks and pan Alderson’s. Those who ignore history…
Im curious, just for fun, would you like to identify Alderson draftees that are going to be difference makers in the big leagues?
2011. Nimmo, basic bust for 1st round
Fulmer…awesome, for someone else.
2012. Cecchini, Plawecki, Reynolds – uniformly busts
Oswalt, Nido…?
2013. Smith, who knows. Oberste, Guillorme??
2014. Conforto – legit. and………..?
2015. Szapucki? too soon
2016. maybe Alonso too soon
not much to be excited about. Mets have exactly 0 players in MLB top 100 prospects.
Conforto and Fulmer have both proven to be good picks so far.
Gsellman, Lugo, Nimmo, Smith, Bradford, Sewald, Plawecki and, McGowan have all contributed … something and may give more.
Nido, Oswalt, Flexen, Guillorme, Bashlor, Lindsay, Thompson, Szapucki, Conlon, Dunn, Kay, Alonso, Paez, Peterson and Vientos are still climbing the ladder and writing their stories. Things will look completely different if two of these guys turn out to be worthwhile compared to five.
Mazzoni, Gant, Whalen, Meisner, Ramos, Manoah, Wieck and Wotell were all used in trade to get something useful for the MLB club.
I wish we had more on the top line. I wish Cecchini wasn’t a bust and that the 2014 draft wasn’t a wasteland after Conforto and that they didn’t blow their top pick in 2015 to sign Cuddyer. My overall feeling is that it’s too soon to declare anything definitive about Alderson’s drafts.
Look, when Minaya was shown the door one of the biggest complaints was that he didn’t do enough for the farm. Then his guys had a chance to play their way up to the majors and now everyone says that Minaya was better than Alderson. All I’m saying is I don’t know. Could be either way.
What I will say right now is that Alderson has drafted better than Steve Phillips.
I know you don’t like it when I complain about ownership or management, but I call ’em the way I see ’em.
There is not a single player in the Mets system who we can reasonably suggest will step in and help the Mets in 2018. These are Alderson’s guys now, no more Omar holdovers, and it’s a whiff.
That’s not the way it is with many other teams. Read up on other teams and there are prospects on the verge, rookies come up, exciting talent on the cusp, and so on. I’m not making it up. Read the reviews in BP and BA. Look at the top prospect lists. It matters know because it was the single most important thing Alderson needed to do with a financially-limited team. He needed to build an impressive farm system — and yet today the Mets system is widely considered one of the worst in baseball.
In virtually all walks of life there are things to complain about. My guess is that in each of those walks of life, the guys who are viewed as providing great chemistry don’t sit around all day complaining.
Unfortunately, this may be a house of cards on the SP side…. you patch around that major question. When/if the arms respond, you add to it. If most doesn’t respond, you trade what you can into a rebuild.
This is basic stuff, guys!!
Let me ask a simple question – What of value did the team get back when they traded Granderson, Duda, Walker, Bruce and Reed at the deadline last year? doesn’t seem like much