The Mets’
bullpen is a mess and the only thing that is uncertain is how we should divvy up the blame. Should we be mad at Sandy Alderson or Terry Collins? Each deserves some fault for the position that the Mets find themselves here as we begin the last full week of July, although it is often difficult to determine which percentage to assign to either man for the implosion we have witnessed up close and personal.
Take Manny Acosta for instance. Alderson re-signed him in the offseason, Collins deployed him horribly for 19 games, leading to an 11.86 ERA and now he’s been very good in Triple-A (26 IP, 2.42 ERA, 4 BB, 24 Ks) and can’t get a second chance. Who do we blame for that? Do we fault the GM for refusing to call him up or the manager for not getting better production from him when he was here?
Acosta is but one example. We could go through this exercise with every pitcher the team has used out of the pen this year, with the possible exception of Frank Francisco. We can question the wisdom of Alderson in signing him, but Collins did a wonderful job of keeping his confidence when Francisco struggled. When seemingly half the teams in the league dumped their closer, Collins gave Francisco another shot.
In his last 14 games, Francisco had nine saves and a 1.26 ERA. Unfortunately, Francisco has been out for a month now and without him the Mets have floundered. The team is 8-16 with their closer sidelined and the bullpen has been atrocious.
Do we blame Alderson or Collins?
The three biggest offseason moves by Alderson were bringing in bullpen help. He added Francisco, Jon Rauch and Ramon Ramirez. He also re-signed Tim Byrdak. More than any other area on the team, the 2012 bullpen was an Alderson production. If you ask 100 Mets fans what the biggest problem with the team is, 95 (or more) will say the bullpen.
But we should not be so quick to let Collins off the hook. While he deserves the credit for saving Francisco, he’s also the one who managed Acosta into a DFA. He managed Ramirez into a lousy reliever that he trusts only in mop-up situations. Collins is the one who trotted out Rauch continuously in high leverage situations as he lost seven times in 20 appearances. He is also the guy that made every reliever on the staff fit their usage patterns around Byrdak.
Generally, Collins gets high marks for how he has managed in the year and a half he has been here. But his 2012 bullpen deployment has been horrible. The 11th Commandment states that pitching coach Dan Warthen is a great communicator and cannot be held responsible for anything bad that happens to the pitchers. So Collins has to take the blame for any of the on-field shortcomings of the relievers.
Still, I put the majority of the blame here on Alderson’s shoulders. He’s the one who built this bullpen and he’s the one who has sat and fiddled while Rome burned.
Far too many times we have heard about how the 2012 Mets were not serious World Series contenders and that it did not make any sense to make a trade to sacrifice the future for an ill-conceived playoff run. We even heard references to 2004, when the Mets gutted their farm system (including trading top prospect Scott Kazmir) to try and make the playoffs.
The big difference is that in 2004, the Mets were six games out of the playoffs. At the All-Star break this year, they were a half game out of the playoffs. Plus, no one was advocating trading top prospects Matt Harvey or Zack Wheeler. Other than that, the situations were identical…
In 2011, Alderson traded a reliever at the break. This year he seemingly made no effort to acquire a reliever, even though it was obvious that the bullpen was in dire need of help. Even now, after getting beat up since play resumed in the second half, Alderson claims:
”The presumption is that we are buyers. But, realistically, the next seven, eight, 10 games become important for us.“
It is almost like Alderson is hoping that the team completely falls apart so there is no pressure to make a deal. Earlier, Alderson claimed the ability to add payroll during the season. But perhaps this is like the $110-$120 million payroll we were promised for 2012 – a known lie when it was uttered.
If the Mets are too broke to add salary – just tell us. We won’t like it, but we will understand. Otherwise it looks like management and ownership were too stupid to address such an obvious need.
The 2012 Mets had reinvigorated the fan base with their inspired play in the first half of the season. We no longer thought about collapses or bad free agent signings or Bernie Madoff. Instead we marveled over the exploits of the homegrown roster and the team’s never-say-die attitude.
But all of that has been shot to hell because management won’t pull the trigger on a deal to pick up a Grant Balfour-type reliever to help out a retched bullpen. Balfour lost his job as the A’s closer but has not allowed a run in eight appearances this month. I think he could have helped. Balfour signed as a free agent during the offseason for $4.5 million. If the Mets had acquired him during the All-Star break, they would have owed him somewhere around $2.0 million.
I refuse to believe that Balfour – and the 2012 season – wasn’t worth $2 million and/or a low-level prospect.
No deal is guaranteed to work. Balfour, or whoever else they might have acquired, could have been terrible once he pulled on a Mets uniform. It’s just that management owed it to the fan base to at least try. After five seasons of underachieving, the 2012 Mets were doing the exact opposite. Actually, overachieving is not an accurate description of what was happening. The Mets at the All-Star break were playing within a game of their Pythagorean record.
Of course, since then the team has stumbled in virtually every department. Two SP went on the disabled list, the hitting has been inconsistent and the bullpen has been every bit as bad as it was in the first half. Perhaps a competent relief pitcher would have done nothing to halt the second-half slide.
But we will never know. Instead our GM is going to wait another week to see if we can magically right the ship and then maybe he will consider giving the manager a useful piece to add to the mix. That is if every decent available pitcher isn’t dealt to another team in the interim.
As a fan, I feel cheated. And I can only imagine how Dickey, Tejada, Wright and all the other players who busted it in the first half feels as the GM refuses to pull his weight until another week passes. R.A. Dickey volunteers to pitch out of the bullpen to help the team out. What if he decided to wait a week to see how it went before offering to do anything?
It’s now official – the honeymoon is over for Alderson.
I wish everybody would stop blaming the manager everytime a player doesn’t perform up to expectations. If Collins didn’t keep running these guys out there, then the excuse is, “they weren’t given the opportunity to succeed or fail”
Could it be that Alderson overrated these guys who were supposed to play a big role in the teams success (or lack of it)
On Friday and Saturday, he HAD to blow out his bullpen because the starters only lasted three innings in each game. On Sunday, he went as long as he could with Niese, who did a good job and deserved a win in only the Mets could hit in the clutch.
BTW, When is Francisco coming back?
Francisco threw a bullpen session in NY and is expected to begin his rehab assignment this week.
I don’t think it’s the last few games that people take issue with Collins and his bullpen management. The SP dug him a hole and I think everyone understands that. What we don’t get is making the other pitchers consistently go longer than they’re capable so Byrdak can have 1 and 2-batter outings. We don’t understand why Rauch goes out day after day in pressure situations while Ramirez is relegated to mop-up man. We don’t understand why Beato and his 9:15 straight fastball get used in key situations. And so on…
Serious question.
How did Collins manage Acosta into a DFA?
Acosta had an almost impossible to describe 22 innings this year including 35 hits, 15 walks, 2 HBP, 6 HR’s and 29 earned, 33 total runs scored. Righty’s hit .360/.459/.580, lefty’s hit .362/.436/.596. Both had OPS of over 1.000 against him. He was abysmal at home and even worse on the road and there was in fact no area in which he was even close to average anywhere. To this point in time Rauch and Francisco combined have given up just one less run, in 68 innings than Manny did in 22.
In the NL you have to come in with men on base in the middle of the inning, you also have to leave in the middle with base runners you put on and leave it up to someone else to bail you out because of the double switches that prevent your pitcher from hitting. The AL is so much cleaner where a reliever can concentrate on just “his” inning or segment of the lineup, not so in the NL.
Manny had a 2.95 and 3.45 ERA with us in 2010 and 2011. Can’t see why you wouldn’t seek to resign him. He’s got a great arm but deals with adversity in only one way, throwing harder. That doesn’t work as the results bear out.
In April alone, Acosta pitched more than one inning in five of his nine appearances. He gave up four runs in those starts and all four came after the first inning. Collins tried to use him as a long man and he clearly wasn’t cut out for that role.
That happens to at least one reliever on every team in April Brian as starters innings are limited in the beginning of the season. Acosta would have been made aware of the plan especially with a rehabbing Johan in the rotation. He pitched 11 innings in 9 games and his worst outing came in just 1/3rd of an inning against Colorado (7 runs) and his best outing was against Atlanta when he gave up 1 run in 3 innings. He also had a line of .351/.408/.558 on pitches 1-25. He was historically awful this season in any role.
Historically awful? Please.
I know that B-R gives splits on pitches 1-25 but that’s not really a good way to analyze a relief pitcher, who ideally pitches one inning and throws 12-15 pitches.
Acosta was not good this season and most of the fault lies directly with him. But I think if he was used like Rauch (one inning at a time) or Byrdak (1-3 batters at a time) his numbers would be significantly better. I know earlier I did the research and if he never faced more than four batters in an inning in April, he could have had a 0.00 ERA, when in fact he had an ERA over 9.
A good manager maximizes the talent on hand, creates roles to fit his talent. Collins has generally done a very good job maximizing Byrdak’s value. But he didn’t do that with Acosta this year. It’s not all Collins’ fault – like I said earlier the majority of it is with Acosta. But Collins doesn’t get a free pass because he’s the one who kept putting him out there.
If a manager is just going to try to fit square pegs in round holes, I see that as a shortcoming. You’ve got to adapt and Collins didn’t do that with his bullpen.
Acosta went over an inning a dozen times for Collins last year and with the kind of BA and OB Manny was giving up there is no way he’s getting out of the inning on 12-15 pitches.
Byrdek is a specialty guy just like Pedro Feliciano was. That’s not uncommon. Parnell was counted on for the 7th, Rauch and Francisco the 8th and 9th. Not saying that’s the right way to approach things but that’s very common too. Someone’s got to pick up more than just one inning or your going to use the entire pen every single game especially in April. Manny didn’t get abused. 11 innings in 9 outings. Ramon Ramirez has gone more than an inning 13 times already, 4 times in April. Parnell did 3 times in April. In his 3rd appearance this year he went 2/3rds of an inning gave up a hit, 2 walks and 4 runs, none were charged to him because of Tejada’s error but a hit and 2 walks is not a good showing. In his 8th appearance April 27th he gave up 7 runs in 1/3rd of an inning. 5 hits a HR and 2 walks, got one out and gave up 7 runs, ERA went from 2.89 to 9.31.
2.89 is not a bad ERA and that’s where he was after all the abuse he suffered under Terry Collins through April 26th and his first 7 appearances. Dropped it down to 8 while being babied with 2/3 IP appearances and zoomed it all the way near 12 when Collins needed him to step up.
Seven of his 19 appearances were 4 or less batters anyway and that’s more dependent on how the pitcher pitches than anything else. If he pitches well 4 batters is an inning, if he pitches like crap 4 batters could be 1/3rd of an inning and 3 runs in and relievers have to eat innings if their not closing or they tax everyone else in the pen and make them worse.
The last two years Acosta has been better than Rauch. Acosta had a 118 ERA+ while Rauch was at 106 ERA+ over the 2010-2011 span. Last year Acosta had a 3.45 ERA while Rauch had a 4.85 ERA. Why was he given preference for the one inning role over Acosta? Rauch gave up 10 ER in 11.1 IP in Spring Training, so he certainly didn’t win the role then.
Who knows, not me. I always loved Acosta’s arm, always thought he had great potential. Maybe cause he faltered when given a chance to close last year.
Personally I think some of these bullpen moves were timed to coincide with the Reyes announcement and I don’t think every pitcher was beating down the door to come here and pitch with this defense, Madoff, negative environment, angry fan base.
I think they took who they could get and made the deals when they did to give the fans something other than Reyes to talk about. Bottom line is once every 10 years you can throw a pen together and have it work out, the other 9 times you get some good, some bad, spotty, inconsistent, frustrating. You either provide your own pen or trade for the exact guys you want. Picking off the scrap heap is not a successful strategy yet that’s what we do every year.
Between flyballs dropping in, passed balls, wild pitches, double plays not turned, infield hits as well as all the charged errors the bullpen has born the brunt of a very poor defense.
Just last week with the infield in, hard GB hit right to Ike and a slow runner at bat he throws home instead of turning the DP. Beato comes in and throws a wild pitch, Mets lose, Byrdek gets a run charged to him. True he gave up the triple to Harper but really what is the point in loading the bases and playing the infield in except to turn 2? Davis has thrown wide of 2B a few times this season causing us to not get both guys. Murphy fumbled 2 DP opportunities against Philly, got the batter at first both times but those runners on 2B scored and they were charged runs. Not saying the bullpen has been good mind you but everyone in the pen has a much higher ERA than they deserve and many times it’s been the leadoff guy who hits a humpback liner that drops into RF putting the pitcher into the stretch which limits his effectiveness.
Why has the bullpen borne the brunt of the defense rather than the starters? The starters have pitched more innings.
Very good question Brian, one that I cannot answer and don’t even know for a fact is true. Just going more by feel here but it definitely feels to me to be the case.
leadoff humpback liner to right, walk, DP not turned, single, flyball hits OFer in leg ruled a double, GB through the infield walk, error 1 run lead turns into a 3 run deficit. Just the way it feels to me.
Sizzling article Brian. And the sentiment well expresses what I think a lot of us in Mets land feels, regardless if there are specific little disagreements. Im very unhappy with TCs situational strategy of deploying pitchers, only to be instantly outsmarted by bringing in a pinch hitter that does not get the match-up he wants. I think he needs to get relief help in, and go with it, because that person is ready to complete the mission, which in my eyes is more than a single batter (although sometimes it is).
Sandy needs to own up to this, and if it is not already too late, fix it ASAP. Waiting another week will decimate fan support, and to chuck around a few M$ to try is worth it. Right now no one out in the pen is worth anything, in any leverage situation. I couldn’t care less about shattered egos either. I would urge caution about correlating success with Frank Frank’s performance. It also correlates with the outstanding starting pitching (and more recently the lack of), a much more likely cause of success early on. That same starting pitching has abandoned us from mid-late June. RA had plenty opportunity to seal the deal as starter for the ASG, but could not deliver (makes LaRussa look like the genius he is) in the immediately preceding starts. Johan has been an unmitigated disaster for 1.5 months now.
The pen needs attention in the worst way imaginable. And this has been clear since day 1. Sandy is the responsible party (did anyone REALLY believe bringing in the 8th-9th guys from Toronto who were happy to see them go and Ramirez was the answer?), and needs to fix this hot mess.
Thanks Chris!
I didn’t mind Francisco and I thought Ramirez was a good pickup. I wanted no part of Rauch and I thought they could have signed any lefty reliever and have been as good off as signing Byrdak.
I don’t care that Dickey has hit a rough patch – he should have been the starter in the All-Star game.
I was OK with signing Francisco, and he was decent before he went down. Ramirez seemed like a good pickup, too. Rauch? I had my doubts about him for the money he got.
But I agree on spending a few million to bolster the pen. Won’t they lose that much in lost attendance and associated sales, if the team continues to blow leads and get further behind in games?
Also, I would consider bringing up Familia to start, if Hefner falters. And how about giving Mejia a shot in the pen soon, now that he appears to have gotten his act together a bit at AAA?
“The nice thing about the trade deadline is you’re only paying half the salary or less — maybe a third of the salary. So a lot of good players can become available during that time frame. But certainly I believe that if we’re in contention for a wild card or what have you, we definitely could be looking to add to our club.” Alderson on 2/17/12. Regarding the bullpen, Alderson said: “This is an area to begin to look at externally.” 6/12/12. That quote was 10 days before Fransisco went on the DL. Fans knew then that this was where Sandy’s focus was but what they didn’t know at that time was this which was revealed on 7-16-12: Alderson said the Mets will be reluctant to part with any prospect who can help in 2013 or 2014. On 7/23/12 that makes sense but on 6/12/12 it makes no sense as the Mets were only 1 game out of the wildcard on that date.They were a wildcard team as late as 6/30. This is why I can’t give a pass to Alderson on this but actually blame him for not gearing up his team to compete against the teams they needed to beat right after the break. The goal is to make the playoffs, and the most sensible way to build is through the farm system, but when opportunity knocks you have to answer the door. It was tossed about that there was a 10M budget available, so by paying salary and giving up a second tier pitcher, they could have made a move but Sandy was in transition mode and never shifted into playoff mode.
Thanks for the dates and quotes Metsense!
We cannot know what conversations Alderson has had and what prospects other teams were interested in. Once Francisco went down I’m sure the price for everyone went up. That’s the way it works. Same thing happened last year. On the day Chipper came back, not only did he get re-injured but McCann went down too. All of a sudden Wheeler was available and the deal was done for Beltran the very next day. I have no doubt teams were trying to extract a better prospect after Frank went down and I trust Alderson to not give away the store.
1999 trade deadline we traded Jason Isringhausen for Billy Taylor.
2000 trade deadline we traded Melvin Mora for Mike Bordick and Nelson Cruz for Jorge Velandia.
2001 trade deadline we traded Rick Reed for Matt Lawton.
2002 trade deadline we traded away Jason Bay for Steve Reed and offered David Wright to Toronto for Jose Cruz Jr.
2004 trade deadline we traded Scott Kazmir for Victor Zambranno.
Izzy, Mora, Cruz, Reed, Bay and Zambranno is what we gave up as “buyers” in just a 5 year period. Health Bell, Royce Ring and Jason Vargas is what we gave up in just one day in the 2006 off season. You know what they say, sometimes the best trades…………….
Good work, 7train. One never knows how a trade might work out.
Thanks Norm, When you think about it a 3-4-5 of Mora, Cruz and Bay, Kazmir starting and Izzy closing wouldn’t have been all that bad huh? Add in Beltran, Delgado, Reyes, Wright and you start thinking about 2006, 2007, 2008 and……………I better stop I’m getting pissed.
I was opposed to the Izzy and Mora deals.
Cruz finally played a full season nine years after the Mets dealt him. Two other teams gave up on him, too.
Reed was 25-25 with a 4.59 ERA after the trade
Bay was traded again before he broke out.
Kazmir deal was idiotic and nobody was in favor of it.
The whole point of the Alderson-DePo-Ricciardi front office is that they are supposed to be smarter than not only what we’ve had recently but what other teams have.
Not every trade is going to work out but you can’t let that keep you from making any trades. If you do you’re eliminating a path to success.
Bay for Steve Reed was a terrible trade. Bay was up in 2003 and hitting well one year after we traded him. Izzy for Taylor was highway robbery. Cruz we probably could not have waited on. Reed was nearing his shelf life but due to his circumstances with the players union might have been better for us than he was in the Homerdome. He was an extremely effective pitcher for us. The Mora trade was necessitated by Phillips trading Luis Lopez a perfectly decent backup SS to reacquire Bill Pulsipher who he had just traded away. Kazmir Zambranno is just really comical unless your a Met Fan.
The point is people want us to be buyers but these have been the results when we have bought in the recent past so if Alderson does not get what he wants at a reasonable price then that has to be accepted because things could be worse the not swinging the big trade as these recent deadline deals bear out.
But Alderson isn’t claiming that other GMs are trying to hold him up. He’s saying he wants to wait to see where the team’s at. No one is saying to trade Harvey-Wheeler. But that’s not the price that RP who have been dealt in the last week have gone for. It’s not what Brandon Lyon cost. It’s not what Brett Myers cost. It’s not what Francisco Corder cost. It’s not what Justin Germano cost.
I just don’t buy the theory that these teams are willing to trade relievers for second-tier prospects to other clubs but they’re asking the Mets for their top prospects.
Teams willing to trade are holding out for the best return, they don’t care from where it comes but with Frank going down that should increase our willingness which in turn moves the market.
I really don’t know what types of prospects were traded for those guys but Germano was sold to the Cubs for cash and he wasn’t going to fix our pen anyway. Brett Myers went for our equivilent of Brandon Moore and Brad Holt. That would be fine with me. Who knows what Alderson is working on but it he doesn’t pull something off that’s OK because it could be worse.
But that’s the thing – it hasn’t increased our willingness. Alderson has not given one indication that he’s been outbid on a player. He’s been passive when he needed to be active. And now it makes no sense.
Mind you, I’m not claiming that one trade for a reliever would have solved all of our problems. But there was a potential to help some and at the same time send a signal that management cared about winning this year, too. Instead the signal was that we had no intention of competing this year and the fans who got excited about this club didn’t deserve any backup from the front office.
You point out poor trades from the previous administrations but I don’t see why that’s a reason for *this* front office to do nothing. Not every deadline deal is destined to be a win for the seller.
It probably has increased the willingness but the cost isn’t palatable or it would have happened already or the guy Alderson wants team may not have yet conceeded.
Alderson isn’t going to tell everyone what he’s trying to do. He’s not going to telegraph his every thought, conversation or idea. He’s going to try to get something done at a cost he can live with. One that doesn’t negatively affect the future roster and one that gives us a good chance to get better, not a hope and a prayer.
Your not alone in thinking that one arm isn’t going to solve all of our problems and I’m sure Alderson feels the same way, so why would he pay a heavy price for that part that he would like to add? Maybe he’s working on something very substantial like Upton, Mahtook, Tommy Joesph, Travis d’Anaurd. Maybe a couple of things have to come together before he can proceed. What’s the rush? We weren’t going to win the World Series this year anyway.
As for this whole showing that management cares thing is childish. It’s a business and a damn competitive one. One that has your season record indelibly recorded all over the Country. Everyone knows damn well that every FO is trying to win but in the name of “showing people management cares” there have been numerous stupid, shortsighted and franchise crippling moves made that won nothing and cost plenty and we have come out on the short end of way more than our fair share of them.
I trust Alderson to make a good trade(s) or not to make any trade and if people want to scream and yell about how “he didn’t do anything to help this team” it won’t bother me one bit because those same people were over the moon when we picked up Steve Reed for Jason Bay, got Mike Bordick for Melvin Mora, narrowed the gap between ourselves and the Braves by getting Billy Taylor for Jason Isringhausen and closed in on the NL Eastern Division Title by stealing Victor Zambranno for Scott Kazmir.
Sure management showed they cared back then. Cared about saving their jobs by ****ing the fans for years to come.
If he’s able to do something worthwhile with a high probability of success, he’ll do so. If not he won’t, and no one will ever know what attempts were made because it doesn’t further the cause of winning World Championships to blab on endlessly about who your tying to get and what teams are asking for.
You seem to think that every move comes with a heavy price and I wish we could agree that no one is talking about a deal where we give up Matt Harvey for some random middle reliever.
Just for argument’s sake, let’s say on July 1st, the A’s called the Mets and said they wanted to trade Grant Balfour.
At this point in time, Balfour has lost his job as closer and in his last outing he gave up 4 ER in 0.2 IP. He now has a 3.49 ERA and is owed about half of the $4.5 million he signed for in the offseason.
Is there no trade out there that works for both teams? Not one where we send them Harvey or one where they send us Balfour for a bag of broken bats and a pop-up toaster?
I’m thinking there was a good trade to be made for both clubs in this situation. The A’s undoubtedly looking for salary relief and a C-level prospect.
One of the values of minor league players is to act as trade chits for the big league club. I see no reason why Alderson shouldn’t have been shopping Darin Gorski or Juan Lagares or a similar-type player — not one of the top guys but someone who offered some value. Gorski has a shot to be a #5 SP and should at least be a lefty out of the pen. Lagares seems like a solid 4th OF.
The A’s get salary relief and a C-level prospect. The Mets get a RP to hopefully provide some relief. A classic win-win situation.
I’m still calling for the GM to have the long-run interests of the club at heart. I don’t think trading a C-level prospect is surrendering the fort. I just believe that Alderson should have been looking for this type of deal rather than taking a wait-and-see approach.
On June 30th the Mets despite all their shortcomings were a playoff team, not chasing the spot. If you are a playoff team you have a chance to win the World Series. Many readers on this site realizes those odds were long and would have crucified the Mets if they traded a top prospect. They needed a closer and probably for Sandy the price was too high but they also needed a relief pitcher or two better than Ramirez, Rauch, Beato, Acosta etc and surely those relievers were out there for a reasonable price. 7Train, all your points have been digested, but I firmly agree to disagree with you.
Fair enough Metsense but you are not a playoff team on June 30th. All you’ve done is give yourself the chance to compete for a playoff spot at that point, nothing more. Most teams are not sure they want to sell on June 30th and there are more buyers and less sellers this year than last because of the 2nd wild card. It would behoove any GM interested in selling to wait it out, not jump too soon, try to get everyone interested and see what happens………………unless you get blown away.
Brian, Gorski or Lagares for Balfour is not unreasonable. Personally I would like keep both because they each fit a need we don’t have elsewhere in the upper minors but I can certainly accept the concept.
With Oakland who knows what they think but I would still be surprised if their looking to sell. So far they have put themselves in position to compete for a wild card and with such terrific pitching I can see them staying in it till the end.
If we were going to talk to Oakland I would have been interested in seeing if Jeremy Barfield was available along with Balfour for Duda, Turner and Lagares.
That could help both of us now and later.
I’m reluctant to blame Collins for much of the bullpen disaster. At some point, these professional athletes making millions of dollars have to execute, even if they’re not being used in their preferred manner. I’m a newspaper reporter and I would be fired if I continuously missed big stories or wrote terrible stories. Why shouldn’t they also have the pressure?
Brian, I think you and I are on the same wavelength, and we’re not the only ones. I was steaming about Alderson not getting bullpen help after a loss this weekend and I hopped in my car for five seconds to park it. In that time, I heard Steve Somers complain about Alderson not doing anything.
I really think that at some point we have to consider the reason we never have any relievers and have to rely on going outside the organization every year for 3-4 guys.
It’s not that we haven’t specifically targeted near ready college relief pitchers in the draft. Eddie Kunz, Brant Rustich, Joe Smith, Eric Niessen and Steven Clyne were very high draft choices and the only one who made it was traded for you guessed it, a relief pitcher.
Heilman and Parnell have had some modicum of success. Health Bell, Jason Isringhausen, Matt Linstrom, Joe Smith and Darren O’Day much more so and these are the guys we got rid of.
It is not normal for a baseball team to have so few homegrown relievers and it’s not healthy for the team either because you can’t send guys down when they struggle and bring someone else up the way you can with players in their option years. I know Ollie was a starter but the same principle applies to relievers. You cannot send down Rauch, Ramirez or Francisco and dip into the AAA pen for someone who’s going good and with relievers year to year being so volatile it would be much better to have 6 choices instead of 3 available.
Something has been seriously wrong with our farm system for years both in the developmental end and the evaluation end.
The 2007 Draft certainly ranks as Minaya’s poorest. Still, that draft produced Duda, Carson and Gee, so it’s not the complete washout that it appeared two years ago.
I think the Mets are developing exactly what you outline here. Parnell, E. Ramirez and Edgin on the major league roster all from the Mets’ system. Familia, Mejia and McHugh in Triple-A. Carson, Gorski, A. Rodriguez in Double-A. Leathersich and whichever starters don’t cut it in Hi-A.
I think there is a lot of solid depth in the system and we could have traded one of these arms to pick up a reliever to help here in 2012.
I agree things are looking good. Depending on who your talking about moving it could be considered but who knows which one teams are asking about.
I don’t have a great feeling about Carson but LHP with mid 90’s FB don’t come around too often. I wouldn’t do that and I wouldn’t open another hole by trading anyone else mentioned because not all of them will make it, others will get hurt and some will be needed to cover for other pitcher injuries.
Duda’s a DH, doesn’t mean he has no future just that he can’t help us enough to make up for the defense. Carson is unlikely to break out. Gee has been a success but every team drafts 25 pitchers every year and hits on a 25th rounder every 5 years or so. That draft was the result of dismantling a very successful pen the year before. Roberto Hernandez got us a supp pick and a 2nd rounder, Bradford a supp pick and a 3rd rounder. We gave up our own first rounder for Alou and busted on all two supp picks, two 2nd rounders and two 3rd rounders. Travis d’Anaurd was there, Corey Luebke, Tommy Hunter, Mike (Giancarlo) Stanton, Freddie Freeman, Zack Cozart, Austin Romine, Jordan Zimmerman, Jonathon Lucroy, Darwin Barney. With 7 picks in the first 123 we should have gotten more than just 103 games of Moises Alou.
Even hitting on just 2 of the 7, say d’Anaurd and Stanton would have been huge. Can you imagine how much brighter our future would look if we had those two? Clearly college relief pitchers were the priority that year and we’re paying for it right now and will for a few more years.
I’m not sure that I would call it his worst draft, probably the most disappointing one because of having so many early round selections where the chances of getting well rounded three and four tool players are so much better than later rounds.
Duda has plenty of value but not so much for us with Davis entrenched at 1B and no need for a DH. I’d like to give Carson every chance but it is not looking good right now. Lots of hits, too many walks, still just 23 though. Gee’s been a good starting pitcher when we really needed one.
2006 was Joe Smith and Daniel Murphy. Useful players for sure but not game breakers.
2008 Ike and Kirk. Mixed bag. Ike will probably need SOME platoon help. Kirk probably a full time platoon guy, 4th OFer. Both are defensively good and Kirk can run the bases. Both useful. Ike can be a game breaker. Havens and Holt big disappointments so far. Javier Rodriguez, Dock Doyle the same. Ratliff a real shame, Campbell, Kaplan and McHugh may be a help. Still and all three #1 picks.
Mets also had plenty of vacancies these same players may not have had as many chances were they drafted by someone else.
Bullpen awful again after the Tejada deathblow.TC killed us by taking out Byrdak and using Beato.Beato is gasoline on a fire(as someone said on here recently).
I wish Collins would stop treating Roger Bernadina like someone who was the most dangerous hitter around. He brings in Byrdak to start the inning so he can get the lefty-on-lefty matchup with Bernadina. But then he had righties coming up. After he burned thru Byrdak to face Berandina, he had no lefty for Bryce Harper, who was a much more dangerous hitter.
I’d rather have Beato start the inning with no one on and then bring in Byrdak to get the tough lefty. Instead Byrdak leaves with two runners on base and Beato comes in and allows both runners to score.
Byrdak should not have been removed. The Nats batting order should have dictated the need to leave Byrdak in the game.
The Mets give me heartburn every night!
Wow, a lot of comments on this one, and not surprisngly because the bullpen has been the main culprit in this bad stretch.
Most of my points i wanted to make have been made by Brian. Nice to see that TC is starting to get some heat on him(he needs some explaining to do), now only if the beat writers/reporters would start grilling some of the questions and comments we have been making here.
2015 and the front story is the same: Alderson has built an insufficient team, and Collins has failed to deploy and coach what he has to the limit of their potential. In the background is the clutches of the Wilpons.
Year after year, “the song remains the same”. Expecting a different outcome is well the definition of insanity as the old saying goes.
Good one on the Nero reference.
It’s a problem for some time, but has been accepted and misunderstood as “patience.”
Mike called him the Honey Badger of GMs. When it comes to the fans, Sandy doesn’t give a . . .