For the third straight year there are many, many more qualified players for the Hall of Fame than there are spots on a Hall of Fame ballot. Even if you are a steroids hardliner and don’t want to show support for anyone who ever failed a drug test or old sportswriter crackpot theory, you could easily fill out a ballot with 10 names. So, imagine my shock when people turned in ballots with fewer than 10 names on it. Hey, it takes all kinds and one of the things that’s good about Mets360 is that many different points of view are represented. Let’s take a look at the guys who drew votes from our panel:
Jeff Bagwell – Tough call. Like Piazza, great power numbers with PED rumors, but at a less premium position. Numbers are too similar to McGriff’s to vote in one without the other. (Netter)
Barry Bonds – Did he cheat? Yes! Does that preclude him from the Hall of Fame? Not in my opinion. It’s a museum, not a shrine. (Groveman)
Roger Clemens – Like with Bonds, the Hall of Fame cannot ignore one of the all-time greats, regardless of circumstances. With seven Cy Young awards, 354 wins and 4,672 strikeouts, Clemens certainly qualifies. (Barbieri)
Jim Edmonds – I’m not 100% convinced Edmonds is a Hall of Famer, but I’m not convinced he’s not either. And he needs (and deserves) 5% to stay on the ballot, so he gets my 10th & (by rule) final vote. (Walendin)
Ken Griffey Jr. – In this year of fathers and sons in galaxies far, far away, the son who appears to have stayed on the light side deserves first-ballot recognition. (Parker)
Trevor Hoffman – Say what you will about the modern bullpen and the flawed save stat, the fact of the matter is that Hoffman is second in saves (601 and well above third place Lee Smith) and save % (88.8). (Rogan)
Jeff Kent – He and Bobby Grich were always underrated. Super offense, adequate defense from second base. (Smith)
Edgar Martinez – If we don’t elect DHs, why should we elect Relief Pitchers or Starting Pitchers? They don’t play the whole game! (Vasile)
Fred McGriff – Quietly put up sensational career numbers. (Netter)
Mark McGwire – Last year on the ballot for a man who stood out one of the most intimidating, powerful sluggers of an era full of intimidating, powerful sluggers. (Walendin)
Mike Mussina – He won 270 games, struck out 2,800 hitters, and had maintained a career 123 ERA+ while accumulating 83 bWAR. Perrenial all-star and Cy Young candidate during his prime. (Rogan)
Mike Piazza – Not just the greatest hitting catcher of all-time, but the greatest catcher of all-time. Period. (Vasile)
Tim Raines – Anyone who voted for Tony Gwynn needs to vote for Raines. Gwynn got on base 3,931 times by hit or walk while Raines got on 3,935 times. And Raines had 489 more steals. (Joura)
Curt Schilling – While Schilling’s regular-season numbers may fall a little short of Hall of Fame-caliber, his postseason dominance pushes him over the hump. He allowed two runs or fewer in 14 of 19 playoff starts, going 11-2 with a 2.23 ERA and a streak of four consecutive complete-game victories. (Barbieri)
Gary Sheffield – Has all the numbers and was a terrifying presence in the middle of any lineup. (Ferguson)
Lee Smith – Another one of the game’s great closers who finished Top 5 in Cy Young voting three times, and finished 8th in MVP voting one year. (Newman)
Alan Trammell – On his final Hall of Fame ballot, Trammel was a well-rounded shortstop for years. (Koehler)
Billy Wagner – Best left handed reliever of all time according to statistics…enough said. (Kolton)
Larry Walker – Everyone wants to discount him because of Coors Field. Lifetime road stats for Walker: .278/.370/.495. Compare those to the road stats for everyone’s favorite this year, Griffey: .272/.355/.505 (Joura)
So, how did our group vote? Here are the ballots for each of our writers:
Joe Barbieri – Bagwell, Bonds, Clemens, Griffey, Hoffman, Martinez, Piazza, Schilling
Scott Ferguson – Bagwell, Bonds, Clemens, Griffey, Hoffman, Kent, Piazza, Raines, Schilling, Sheffield
David Groveman – Bagwell, Bonds, Clemens, Griffey, Piazza
Brian Joura – Bagwell, Bonds, Clemens, Griffey, Mussina, Piazza, Raines, Schilling, Trammell, Walker
Mike Koehler – Bagwell, Griffey, Mussina, Piazza, Smith, Trammell
Dan Kolton – Bonds, Clemens, Griffey, Hoffman, Martinez, Piazza, Schilling, Smith, Wagner
Matt Netter – Bagwell, Griffey, Hoffman, McGriff, Piazza, Raines, Smith
James Newman – Griffey, Hoffman, Piazza, Smith
Doug Parker – Bagwell, Griffey, Piazza, Raines
Rob Rogan – Bagwell, Griffey, Hoffman, Mussina, Piazza, Raines, Schilling
Larry Smith – Bagwell, Kent, Piazza, Raines
Joe Vasile – Bagwell, Bonds, Clemens, Griffey, Martinez, Mussina, Piazza, Raines, Schilling, Walker
Chris Walendin – Bagwell, Bonds, Clemens, Edmonds, Griffey, Martinez, McGwire, Piazza, Raines, Walker
In our 13 voter universe, a player needs 10 ballots to reach the 75% bar necessary to earn selection to the Hall of Fame. Here’s how they fared:
13 – Piazza
12 – Griffey
11 – Bagwell
Raines (8), Bonds (7), Clemens (7), Hoffman (6), Schilling (6), Martinez (4), Mussina (4), Smith (4), Walker (3), Kent (2), Trammell (2), Edmonds (1), McGriff (1), McGwire (1), Sheffield (1), Wagner (1).
Last year, we elected five guys, the four who made it in and Piazza. The highest vote getter who didn’t get in for us in 2015 was Bagwell with eight of 14 votes. Our three are likely to be the ones to get in the actual Hall of Fame, with Raines likely just missing the cut. It would be great if Raines got in this year, as we need more players to get in to ease the backload.
Of course, we’ll lose guys who deserve to be on the ballot longer, like Edmonds and Nomar Garciaparra, who are likely to fall beneath the 5% necessary to remain eligible. Possibly others will fall off, too. Still, quality newcomers keep arriving. Next year will see Vladimir Guerrero, Jorge Posada, Manny Ramirez and Ivan Rodriguez added to the list.
I would like to see Raines make it.
Piazza, Griffey, definitely.
Hoffman, Bagwell, maybe.
By the logic of past votes, I don’t mind letting Bonds and Clemens sit out a while longer. Proven PED users. They can wait.
And I’ll write in Joe Jackson & Pete Rose.
I noticed all writers write Piazza, but we are all Mets fans so that helps our buddy. Of the remaining players, in my mind a player must be elite to be in the hall of fame, not just very good – perennial all-star is important, but if he wasn’t an all star at least 10 times or 75-80% of his active seasons, he couldn’t have been elite.
I would say Piazza, Griffey, Raines, Mussina, Bagwell, Hoffman, Kent, McGriff, Smith, and Walker (since I feel the obligation to write ten names as a sense of respect).
Yeah, no doubt this being a Mets-themed blog helps Piazza. But I would be shocked if he didn’t clear 75% and make the Hall this year.
However, I don’t think your standard of needing to make the AS team X amount/percentage of times is a fair one. There are certain positions where there is an abundance of competition and it’s just not possible. I mean, Nolan Ryan played for 27 years and only made the AS team 8X.
I’m pleased to see McGriff on your ballot. Do you place Schilling in some kind of PED class?
Brian, I always liked McGriff and he kept a low profile. Ironically, it’s also the reason I don’t like Schilling. To me Schilling was inconsistent, injury prone, and one heck of a jerk. I am not ready to reward that type.
While Mussina was as consistent as you can ask for, Schilling was up and down. How can that be for such a “talented” player? I also believe the PED stuff because he struggled for several years; then had four good-but-not-great years; then he had two really down years; followed by a rediculous leap to four years of “Clayton Kershaw” numbers out of the blue. Nowhere near his previous norms in strikeouts or innings. Actually, similar to what happened with Clemens where everyone thought he was done and then he became dominant again. How is that explained?
and mine (no order, taken from BBREF):
Piazza
Bagwell
Raines
Trammell
Crime Dog
Walker
Griffey (for my money, the best player Ive ever seen. Id take him in a CF platoon today!)
Billy Wags
Hells Bells
Martinez (although im still wavering on it)
I enjoy the writing of Larry Smith, so I would like to know the reasoning behind his omitting Griffey, Jr.
So out of the newbies for next year, I suspect that Vlad will get in, but it might take a couple of years. Pudge will engender an amplified version of the speculation/handwringing that has dogged Piazza over the years, but I think he gets in eventually. Manny was no doubt a HOF talent, but his 10-cent head will keep him out. Posada is just not a HOFer, and won’t last long on the ballot.
As long as Raines finally gets in, and all the steroid cheats (I don’t care for the apologists and there ‘who else cheated’ nonsense) never get in, I’m good with the results otherwise.
I have to say something that will make me sound like a complete hypocrite. While I think Piazza and Bagwell deserve to be in despite PED speculation without any evidence, I don’t grant Schilling the same pass. To me he’s the pitching version of McGwire – couldn’t stay healthy in his 20’s due to chronic back injuries then suddenly blossomed into a powerful force in the second half of his career. Guy had his best seasons in the twilight of his career and just happened to play the bulk of his career on three teams that were loaded with PED offenders. To me, he’s the most obvious PED user who didn’t get caught. He was so outspoken against steroids, but to paraphrase Shakespeare, “Though doth protest too much.” I know he was a postseason hero and the bloody sock and all that, but I personally think he’s a fraud and, by many accounts, a real jerk.