It’s going to be an interesting offseason (…again) for the New York Mets. A new front office, a (mostly) new coaching staff, and decisions on whether to cut bait or retain underperforming players are just some of the decisions on the docket this fall and winter. It’s anyone’s guess how it’ll all play out. A lot of what needs to happen must occur in sequence, and the additional uncertainty regarding the collective bargaining agreement adds additional layers of complexity to an already daunting to-do list.
At the end of August I argued that Steve Cohen should tear it all down. I continue to believe that is the best course of action for the franchise. The entire organization needs a fundamental overhaul from top to bottom, including some soul-searching on its organizational player development philosophy (particularly hitting). For all the change that’s likely to occur, so much more isn’t going to change. Most importantly, Sandy Alderson will remain in an executive role and questions regarding meddling on the baseball side of organizational decision-making appear to be affecting the level of interest in potential front office candidates. Concerns about autonomy will certainly also temper interest in these positions, while the nepotistic elevation of Alderson’s son to Assistant General Manager certainly complicates matters. The more things change, the more things stay the same. But I digress.
Various Mets360 writers have done fantastic jobs presenting reasonable, well-thought out, and (importantly) realistic paths for the Mets to take this off-season. Rather than rehash all of the moves already noted in their pieces, let’s get a little bit crazy and see if we can leverage the new owner’s wealth the way we all hoped he would while also attempting to protect their first-round draft pick. This piece will focus strictly on the roster as the front office and managerial hires appear to be wildly unpredictable at the moment. Let’s play some fantasy baseball.
The Rotation
This one is fairly straightforward if still pretty risky. It would be a complete surprise if the Mets did not offer Noah Syndergaard a qualifying offer (or extend him), and just as surprising if he didn’t accept it. Marcus Stroman should be re-signed as a priority, and the team still has Carlos Carrasco, Taijuan Walker, and of course Jacob deGrom under contract. That is a fantastic if terrifyingly brittle starting five. If the Mets fail to sign Stroman, they could plug someone like David Peterson and Tylor Megill in at the back of the rotation. This wouldn’t be ideal, however, as both Megill and Peterson act as critical depth for that fragile starting five. Additionally, the most palatable free agent alternatives come with significant mileage and/or qualifying offer eligibility. Kevin Gausman might be a fallback option here.
The Bullpen
Edwin Diaz, Seth Lugo, Trevor May, Drew Smith, and Miguel Castro are the cast of characters most likely to be back barring some unforeseen and unexpected roster moves. The only other member of the 2021 bullpen that the team should prioritize re-signing is Aaron Loup, and beyond that filling out your bullpen is essentially a crap shoot each season. Name your favorite back-of-the-bullpen relievers to fill out the last two spots. Perhaps a journeyman to fill the role of long relief like the return of Rich Hill.
The Lineup
This is the area that needs the most improvement as it’s become clear that the team simply cannot continue to hope that the combination of Dominic Smith, Jeff McNeil, J.D. Davis, and Michael Conforto every day will blossom into the cornerstone of a perennially competitive offense. It looked like it might happen after 2020, but it’s become crystal clear that the lineup’s performance during that COVID-shortened season was a mirage. In reality, all but Conforto are seemingly best served as a stellar collection of super subs rather than everyday starters.
Let’s break it down:
1B: This one is a no-brainer. Although Pete Alonso is due a hefty pay raise as he becomes arbitration-eligible for the first time, he’s clearly part of the core moving forward.
SS: Francisco Lindor will be here for a very, very long time.
C: Well, there’s not much to be done here. See you next season, James McCann.
2B: Reports suggest that Mets brass were actually quite impressed with Javier Baez’s time in Queens, particularly his owning up to that ridiculous “thumbs down” controversy. Pairing him up long-term with Lindor as one of the league’s most dynamic up-the-middle duos sure seems like a pretty good idea despite his obvious flaws.
3B: The argument is often made that the Mets should sign either Baez or Kris Bryant. The Mets should sign both. Despite some depth at this position in the minors, Bryant provides a good deal of flexibility to cover injury and can play the outfield (or DH) should one of the Mets 3B prospects breakout this season. Of course, we’re currently witnessing the fallout of the team depending too much on the potential of their own homegrown players in Smith, McNeil, and Conforto.
RF: I’ve written quite a bit about Conforto over the last year or so, and I’m still bullish on his ultimate potential. His highs were obviously too high, but I don’t think this past season is indicative of his true talent level either. The team will likely put forth a qualifying offer, which Conforto will likely reject, but the two sides should come to an agreement on a contract. He’s a Scott Boras client, sure, but he seems like a smart enough guy to realize that his 2021 performance has pulled his ultimate payout down a notch or two. Kyle Schwarber might be a fallback option here (or in LF) if you simply do not trust Conforto’s future.
LF: Brandon Nimmo is not a center fielder. He did alright there in 2021 and posted a career-best 6.2 UZR/150, but his best position is clearly left field. He’s the next player the Mets should absolutely extend as a core piece moving forward.
CF: This is where the Mets really need and have an opportunity to upgrade, and they can do that by signing Starling Marte. Not only will this signing (like Bryant and Baez) not cost them a draft pick, Marte had one of his best seasons yet in 2021. Sure, his game is based on speed and he’s entering the end of his prime, but a high-dollar, shortish term deal sounds like a reasonable outcome for a team with no true center fielder on the roster or coming from the farm to save the day.
The Bench
The additions and movements to the lineup noted above are all mostly upgrades to their incumbents and push those incumbents to the bench. That bench suddenly becomes one of the best sets of reserves in baseball. McNeil, Smith, Davis, Luis Guillorme, and Tomas Nido would make for a fantastic bench with a lot of flexibility. The team should also continue their 2021 strategy of spending a bit more money for higher quality depth at AAA instead of dumpster diving. Of course, we have talk about Robinson Cano. Ideally the Mets cut bait here, but it remains to be seen if there is an appetite for that move. If they choose not to cut him, the DH will be a boon in keeping him off the field and relegated to strictly the batter’s box where he may still have some value.
The Roster
The “should be possible but players also have to want to sign here” roster would look as follows:
SP: deGrom, Stroman, Syndergaard, Carrasco, Walker
C: McCann
1B: Alonso
2B: Baez
SS: Lindor
3B: Bryant
LF: Nimmo
CF: Marte
RF: Conforto
Bench: McNeil, Smith, Davis, Guillorme, Nido, Cano
Bullpen: Diaz, Lugo May, Smith, Castro, Loup, Hill
One of the bigger questions (besides money) when bringing in all these pricey free agents is the blocking of prospects. Sadly, the only real positions with prospects anywhere close to knocking on the door are shortstop and third base. Regarding shortstop…well, sorry Ronny Mauricio. Both Brett Baty and Mark Vientos could be potential contributors at the hot corner, maybe as soon as next season. But this is where Bryant’s versatility and the potential for the DH would come into play. If the Mets don’t sign Marte, Bryant can play LF while sliding Nimmo to CF. If Marte is signed, multiple players can rotate through the DH to allow for someone like Batty to be called up and contribute. Injuries generally lead to situations like these working themselves out, particularly for the Mets.
As for money, I say who cares? The Mets have positioned themselves for sustained mediocrity with little on the farm on the way for reinforcement. In the short-term, they’re going to have to invest in free agency while overhauling and re-investing in drafting, international scouting, and player development. The offseason presented above only costs money and avoids trading what little assets the team has while preventing forfeiture of a first-round draft pick. They’d be certain to blow past whatever the new luxury tax threshold is, but better and smarter roster management will allow them to position themselves back under it before the stiffest penalties come into play.
With the Wilpons out of the picture, and a wealthy owner like Cohen at the helm and willing to go beyond the luxury tax, we should no longer have to play payroll gymnastics to dream on a competitive team. Free agency isn’t the only place to spend money, by the way. A creative new General Manager could leverage Cohen’s money to absorb a bad contract for an impactful player, much like the Dodgers did at the start of their dynasty building. That’s certainly a tactic this team should take with all the wealth at its disposal.
Of course, the elephant in the room that could throw a wrench into all of this is one Mr. Alderson. It’ll be an interesting offseason indeed.
I agree with almost the entire plan. I would let Conforto go and try to sign Schwarber. Marte on a three-year deal would be great. And signing Bryant and Baez would be fantastic! Yup, Vientos or Baty could play 3B with Bryant moving to the OF eventually. Schwarber would be a great DH then.
I would try to sign two LH relievers—maybe Loup and Chafin. Or trade Smith for a good reliever and a prospect, if possible.
I’m almost in complete agreement Rob. I’m less high on Conforto, but I’m ok if they come to terms. The main thing being Dom JD McNeil are really bench players on a serious team.
It is clear Alson’s toxic environment is making FO moves complicated. He needs to be fired as well as his family members. Like a tumor, the entire Alderson connection needs to be fully removed.
Just a quick add. One can expect that if there are issues signing FO types, there will be problems signing FAs too, and Cohen may have to overpay to get people into Queens.
This is a good point to consider too. Honestly, as a Nets fan, I’ve been in awe to watch my team go from joke to a place that players want to come to and state they love it there. I bring this up because Sean Marks and multiple (very rich) Nets owners made it a point to change the culture of the organization from top to bottom (including the medical side!).
Now, the NBA and MLB are obviously in completely different places with regard to player empowerment, but I can’t recall the last time a collection of high-profile players stated that Queens was the place they really wanted to be, and I think the point about organizational culture and the FO in particular resonates there.
I want a 100% overhaul. Clear the decks, start over, and make this true interesting and encouraging for a long-suffering fan base. The Wilpons and Brodie need to be buried in a very deep hole… start squeaky clean.
As I understand, if a player has a bad year he has to go, right? Forget two or three previous good years, get rid of him right now. Shoot him if he doesn’t leave as quickly as possible. Why are three years worth of good production from Jeff McNeil forgotten? You want to sell low on Dom Smith, go ahead because he’s a first baseman and that’s easier to fill. McNeil goes nowhere. Davis is a hold.
So, when Bryan Reynolds of the Pirates hit .189 with a 0.0 fWAR after hitting .300+ and having a 3.2 fWAR as a rookie, y’all would trade him for a bag of Doritos and have lost out on the 5.5 fWAR year this year. Also, Cody Bellinger was a castrophe this year. Call up the Dodgers and see if he could be had for Dom Smith and Miguel Castro. I believe GMs that play from year to year are out of a job pretty soon.
Hey, Gus. Your point is taken, but I haven’t called for any of the listed players to be shipped out. My point is that they’re are simply not good enough collectively as starters for this team to compete. I think they’d be phenomenal utility players on a championship team, but for the Mets to get there they need better players suiting up on an everyday basis.
Rob, I realize you never said it quite that way but if all the players that had a down year are replaced, it’s kind of the same thing because there isn’t room on the 40 man to carry everyone and having them sit on the bench rotting is a waste. I do agree that collectively they aren’t sufficient, but it’s hard to balance the future of the youngsters coming up with the present of capable major leaguers.
I read an article tonight on si.com that called for a swap of Smith, Davis and Mauricio for Jose Ramirez. That’s pretty tempting and a good way to upgrade using these pieces that are 1. spare parts and 2. blocked by others. While I hate giving up talent, I like Ramirez – and his two years’ control remaining – more than Lindor and I can live with this trade. Ramirez can be at 3B until the kids are ready, then move to 2B and have your second baseman (McNeil) shift to LF or super sub. I know that creates a quandary in the outfield, but there’s many holes to fill and they need to be addressed however possible. What’s your opinion?
I think that’s a trade you have to make for a player like Ramirez, though you do lose key cogs of that potentially lethal bench in that scenario. As you say, there are a lot of holes to fill and roster maneuvering to have it all make sense at the end of the day. If you get Ramirez, you don’t sign Bryant. If the expectation is that he moves to 2B if Baty or Vientos are studs, then you have to consider whether or not it makes sense to sign a 2B this offseason. In that scenario, you likely have to depend on a McNeil bounce back and be intent on plugging him in wherever he fits based on current need. But you’re going to have to be *really* convinced in his bounce back.
I do not envy the job that the new GM has waiting for them with this roster. There appear to be multiple paths and each has various dependencies, and if that new GM makes the wrong choices things could get pretty ugly in short order.
That’s exactly right Gus. There are plenty of people not deserving of a role, like, heaven forbid, Guillorme or Pillar, or whomever. Push down Dom, JD, and McNeil to 300-350 AB bench players and push the rest of the crap off the bottom. There is no reason to defend keeping Guillorme, Blenkenhorn, Peraza, Lee, Pillar, Martinez, and Payton on the 40 man roster. All are done, Quad A, or lower roster fill (possibly Lee excepted, but he does not need to be on the 40 IMO, and does not need to appear in the Bigs in 22). The Mets and Mets fans live in this perpetual state of Stockholm Syndrome where we identify with and make excuses for those holding us hostage from success.
Worrying about blocking Baty, Mauricio, and whoever else is equally not defendable. No matter how good they are, there is no way to know if they are going to show up in The Show. And if they are ready, then promote them, and push the garbage to the street.
Cano comes up all the time. He’s presently not on the 40, but his name will appear. He has no value to this team, and has a no trade clause so he cannot be dumped or packaged to get rid of. He wants to be in NYC. Good. You know what, his 40M$ is to Cohen like a Starbucks coffee is to the rest of us, fine but hardly necessary. Pay him and cut him on the same day. Like Alderson, he is a plague on this team and needs to go. At best he should be a bench player if they keep him, with a locker in the visitors clubhouse.
Cohen has the money. He bought the team to be the anti-Wilpons. Time to see that happen. Protect the coming kids, and get top FAs and quit fretting about money. Can you believe Anthopolous built an outfield after losing a generational talent in Acuna to injury…and superstarred it. With all the time in the world, Alderson couldn’t find his belly button with a whole staff of analytics experts and a detailed road map. And so we end up with Blenkenhorn and Mazieka in Queens.
Chris, your line about comparing Cano to a Starbucks coffee is priceless!!!! And so true !!!!
I’ll add one more thought. Like Rob, I’m not advocating for moving the core 3 underachievers to anything more than the bench. These folks got lazy, expected to just be “the guy” and failed to live up. They need to fight to stay on the field and real competition is clearly necessary. If that means riding the pine until you can force your way in, then so be it. None of these guys are good enough to just be penciled in on a daily basis.
I was originally in the camp of keeping a lot of the current core and supplementing it with free agents but in looking at the guys that are available this year I don’t think that’s a good move. As has been mentioned here before a lot of the free agents are guys that are 30+ and coming off career years that will inflate their contracts. Figuring out which of these guys will replicate their 2021 numbers and not regress will be a crapshoot. I don’t think this is the way to sustained success.
I think Wobbit’s point about blowing it up makes sense. In my mind we have 4 players that have a lot of value on the trade front, in this order: deGrom, Alonso, Nimmo, Diaz. We would need to look to get back MLB ready (or close to MLB ready) talent including a lot of pitching. I also agree with Gus that we shouldn’t give up on McNeil and Smith, especially now while their value is low. I’ve said before that I think McNeil is a bounce back candidate and I know a lot of the comments on this site are that a bounce back from him is a pipe dream and that he’s a replacement level player. I absolutely don’t agree. Maybe he never gets back to what he was but I think there’s a good chance he does and it would be foolish to give up on him now. Keep him and Smith, let them play next season and see how they do. Then if they do bounce back you can decide whether they are part of the core going forward or whether they get moved for young assets.
I know it sounds counterintuitive for a team with a deep pocketed owner to start over but I think it makes more sense than putting money into high priced older free agents that are basically bandaids. You’d be hoping that they can hold onto their productivity into their mid 30s. I’d be willing to punt on the next year or two, develop some young talent and then use Cohen’s money to supplement with the right free agents. I think that’s a better path to sustained contention and I’d be willing to wait a couple years for that.
Hi, Bob! Agreed on the blowing it up as my stated preference (for the *entire* organization). I don’t know that Cohen has the patience and/or wherewithal for that, though. Even more concerning, I don’t want Alderson anywhere near a complete rebuild. He’s the architect of where the team currently stands, albeit with the handcuffs the Wilpons had on him.
We’d have to define overhaul, but I don’t see that as a necessity. There could be a mini-rebuild scenario whereby they dealt deGrom and/or Alonso and it wouldn’t necessarily be an overhaul if the return provided big league ready guys and they signed some free agents as well. It really depends on value of retention vs. value back in a deal, by player. As Gus points out, I would not deal guys coming off bad years for poor return value…move them down on the depth chart a notch but keep them as depth.
Whomever takes over needs to have an open mind and look at what routes provide the best player value and depth. It will likely be a combination of trades, trades that fit, and free agents, to wisely leverage the financial might. Watching these playoffs, one thing is for sure – if you want to win in the playoffs, you better have a deep deep bullpen.
deGrom should be traded this off season. Bundle him with Cano to get back a couple of prospects. Use the $$ saved to sign all the available SP available…..bring in at least two arms. Syndegaard shouldn’t be offered a QO; he’ll take an incentive laden deal and try the FA market for next year. Walker will be back as so should Hill. Stroman will take the money and go to the Yankees. Someone didn’t do their homework regarding damaged good Carrasco, but he’ll be around as a depth piece for next year along with Megill & Peterson.
Why get rid of Smith if we’ll have the DH next year? I also don’t want to give up on McNeil*. Same with Davis…..these three wouldn’t bring back much after the years they had anyway.
Baez? Maybe…..but not for stupid $$$ like his pal Lindor got.
I’d love to see Bryant as a Met next year, but it ain’t happening. A free agent CF like Marte should be targeted, but I can live with Nimmo in center.
* not a third basemen!
I don’t mind keeping McNeil; I just don’t want to start him above a more dependable player. He’s a pretty good bench player, spot starter. He’s not a starting 2B, number 5 or 6 hole hitter. I love making players hit their way into the order… old school, I guess. Hit Lindor 6… if he gets mad and hits better, great. Get Marte… leadoff hitter. Nimmo in 2 hole… very good. Alonso 4 or 5.
If the Mets want to win the division they should leverage the owner’s wealth because there are too many holes in the roster. Stroman and Syndergaard have be signed and Gausman or Scherzer should be added and then trade Walker or Carrasco. Loup should be signed for the bullpen. Conforto had a very average year with 101 OPS+ but he will be 29 and he has a career averages a 124 OPS+ and 3.4 bWAR. Schwarber, also 29, has a career 119+ OPS and a 2.2 bWAR. Conforto is the better player and should be extended. Bryant should be signed as a place holder for Batty, Vientos or Mauricio at 3B and then moved to LF. Marte is not needed. If the want to spend the money or Bryant and Conforto don’t sign , then Baez should be signed. Baez could signed instead of Conforto. Either or but Bryant should be the primary position player.
Cano is still on the team but I hope he isn’t . There are too much moving parts and too many personnel decisions to make a final roster. They need a POBO , GM and manager quickly. Thanks Rob for sharing your good thoughts.
Metsense,
Syndergaard $18
Stroman $25
Gausman $30
Walker ($8)
Conforto/Schwarber $25
Bryant/Diaz $25-$28
Cano $20
Approx $135 million
You may have done the impossible….outspent my daughters!!! lol
I’ve dealt with the very elite rich and they don’t say ” how much” , they say ” when can you do it by.” Cohen want a championship and he has the money.
Spot on. One can’t have weak knees now after dumping 2.45 billion dollars, just to finish 3rd and under .500. Crack open the wallet Cohen and don’t complain. This is what you signed up for.
Flush down the crapper the Alderson-Wilpon plan of “we’re one bat away” and fix this flaming dumpster fire for real.
Definitely keep Taijuan Walker. The guy showed he can be a gem. The bad stretch had many factors, but he might be the best deal for years to come. Very effective pitcher.
Very good point on Walker’s late season issues. I just finished reading an interesting article written by Tim Britton from October 7th. He shows how the Mets defense from August on went from a positive to a major negative.
Further, he points out how the chaos caused by changing hitting coaches was never quite overcome, according to the manager. Alderson must have loved that line…
From the above referenced article by Tim Britton on October 7th:
So, what went wrong for the 2021 Mets and how can they fix it?
The Mets did not hit for power
We could cut short this entire exercise by writing, “The Mets didn’t hit” and calling it a day. You know it, I know it, the Mets sure as hell know it.
“There’s been the ingredient of adjustment not being made by our hitters that the league made on them. They haven’t made it the whole year,” Rojas said late in the season. “It’s worth paying attention to it, and I think for the guys just to make the adjustment back for next year. These guys can hit. I still trust that they can hit. It’s just a tough year for them offensively.”
The article further down breaks down how the Mets were passive on fastballs. Sounds like overthinking, short circuiting the “see ball, hit ball” mentality a hitter needs.
This is why I don’t want to throw out the baby with the bath water, but rather throw out those that provided the leaking bath tub.
That’s fine, and some people aren’t suggesting moving them – but moving them down. JD is not a quality 3B or LF, Dom is not a quality LF, and McNeil, sadly, is not a quality defender at 2B. So even if they hit magically, despite Alderson bringing in his personal swing for the fences BS hitting coach, these players do not have positions to field that are competitive at the top level.
They are good bench pieces, but not more than that. So make these guys the every day players and pick your year in the past bunch, but the overwhelming likelihood is that this group is an under .500 ball club. That is the reality we see if they hit or don’t hit. The personnel don’t work. Year after year it’s under .500 and 0 post season. They are simply put, not good enough.
About the only Mets I value enough to keep on a “new” roster:
Nimmo: he showed that he is still improving… upside increasing. For example, he learned how to hit LH pitching… with no hitting coach!
Pillar: really fulfilled his role as the fourth OF. A man.
Loup: what more could he have done?
Castro: too much potential to give away.
Megill: same as above… I think a future stalwart.
Walker: just too much pitcher for the money.
others who will probably stick around:
Lindor: stuck with him. Bullshit.
McCann: ditto… not the worst option, though. Might hit better.
Carrasco: Nobody values him. If he will ever have another good year, it should be 2022.
Cano: dog poop. Get a judge to negate his contract.
Peterson: could still develop, but a possible head case (see S. Matz)
Syndergaard: has something to prove.
I’m ok with keeping:
McNeil: good utility player. Not a starter on a good team.
JD: needs consistent ABs to be effective.
Guillorme: hope he gets a chance… contact hitting has value at the bottom.
Peraza: quality utility, good glove, has pop.
I’d love to know what Alonso and deGrom would get on the market… I Can Dream, Can’t I?
Anyone suggesting the Mets trade JdG must work to gather their lost marbles.
You know that because JdG lost half a season to injury, other teams will try to jack him from those often silly Mets.
This, despite the fact the JdG has been their most durably consistent pitcher since arriving in 2014.
Given the demented bovine nature of Mets brass, a clever team will surely take this generational pitcher away, thereby earning my eternal contempt
If you read the posts that have suggested trading deGrom they are all suggesting that the Mets evaluate this possibility to see what they can get back in order to better set them up to compete for a championship. It’s not because he missed half a season to injury or because anyone has lost their marbles. It’s looking at the probability of the Mets winning a championship within the window where deGrom is expected to be a great pitcher and whether they can better meet that goal with a haul of young talent. It’s not a slam dunk answer but the bottom line is that while we would all like to see Jake in a Mets uniform for the rest of his career, winning a championship is bigger than any one player.
Exactly Bob. All of us at home GMs, including myself, are suggesting “do this” or “do that”. A skilled executive will determine the direction that the team goes in based on an overall concept/plan, but one that allows for fluidity based on market conditions. He is awesome, and I don’t want to see him go, but truly, a combination of factors will determine “keep” or “sell” on deGrom. One of those factors is his value in the marketplace relative to the overall plan and team construction. If his value is too low based on his recent history, hold. If his value is grossly elevated based upon a team like the Dodgers or Padres being willing to overpay significantly and assume the risk for a World Series shot, it may certainly be worthwhile. And, it does not preclude the Mets building a playoff-caliber team in 2022. See – Red Sox/Mookie Betts, Rays – 3/5 of their starting rotation including their ace, etc.
Nicely done. My only objection is that for the most part we would be going in with almost the same team that we always hope will reach their potential. I’d like to see Baez and Bryant signed along with Stro and Thor. I think Conforto will accept the QO to prove himself healthy and get the big bucks in 2023. No problem with picking up Marte. But I believe we need to send Dom Smith, JD Davis, and some blocked prospects and even Jeff McNeil to pick up a few solid starters – one for the starting rotation and one more star on the field. It would be nice to have those guys as bench players but they’ve never really shown that coming off the bench is their strengths and one bad year does not define someone like McNeil, and he would be very valuable on most any team. Trading Jake would be like trading Seaver, as he is this generations franchise player. As far as Cano, let’s hope there is the DH this year. It’s likely his bat will still be working while getting to balls up the middle will be a thing of the past. Just don’t see Cohen saying who cares about $48 million over the next few years. Now if he can still play and we eat say $15 million each year, a good DH is certainly a bargain at $9 million for another team. Can’t wait to spend Cohen’s money in the off-season. LGM