Please use this thread all week to discuss any Mets-specific topic you wish.
At The Athletic, Tim Britton wrote about an extension for Brandon Nimmo. If only someone had argued for that last year. Anyway, while reading Britton’s piece, a thought jumped to mind. If Nimmo is able to put his injury issues behind him – a not so little if – then he could be one of those rare players who was better in his 30s than he was in his 20s.
The two players who jump to mind who fit that mold are the original Jose Cruz and Dwight Evans. Who else fits the bill?
RA Dickey
Nolan Ryan?
Mariano Rivera?
Jacob deGrom and Max Scherzer
I like the Athletic, btw. Began subscribing about a year ago.
Britton mentioned that the Mets have only extended Lagares and deGrom (which BVW did) in the past 10 years. Only the Baltimore Orioles have done less.
Sandy doesn’t extend.
Unfortunately, there’s little discount in extending Nimmo now.
I thought 4/$64 sounded okay.
Edgar Martinez?
I meant hitters so this is a good one.
Barry Bonds.
Jeter had a little bump there at a time when it should have been falling off. But I’m not looking at a stat sheet, so might be wrong.
Sammy Sosa. Mark McGuire.
I’m sensing a theme.
A theme we don’t wish to pursue !
I love Mike Piazza but I will always believe he used some form of enhancements.
Not everybody gets caught.
Bonds?
I’m embarrassed that I think of him first- Justin Turner
Definitely. Close links to Marlon Byrd.
And what about Daniel Murphy!
The hitting philosophy and approach says a lot about the Mets in the past. They didn’t develop hitters. Hopefully it is a new dawn.
Murphy was around when Sandy was most vocal & aggressive about “the approach” and involved in establishing a “hitting philosophy.”
Stupid Dave Hudgens, forefather of Quattlebaum.
They wanted to pour every player into the same rigid mold.
Anyway, Murphy was a guy who swung the bat and “did not walk enough.” I always believed that Sandy disliked Murphy, in part, for those reasons.
Letting Murphy walk — after witnessing what he did in the 2015 playoffs — was one of Sandy’s worst moments (and he had a lot of them!). The replacement was paying bland Neil Walker more AAV. Insanity.
I guess that was better than going with Dilson Herrera. At the time we let Murphy walk, I argued that the *only* way it made sense was if the Mets brass truly believed in Herrera as a replacement and was going to use that savings to address other weaknesses on the roster.
But no: they signed Bland Neil Walker for more money.
Largely because Daniel Murphy didn’t buy into Sandy’s Guide for Hitting in the MLB.
Jim Duquette on SNY suggested a trade yesterday that sounded OK:
Oakland gives up: Montas and Trivino
NY Mets give up: McNeil and Ramirez
This gives us a 29 year old RH starter in Montas (121 ERA+ last year in 187 INN with 207 K) and a 30 year old RH reliever in Trevino (129 ERA+ last year in 74 INN with 67 K).
McNeil will probably bounce back and Ramirez can be replaced in the coming draft and with foreign signings. But we’ve got to give up something to get something.
And we might be able to substitute Dom Smith for McNeil, if the A’s need a 1Bman, after probably trading Oldson, making the trade better for us, I think.
Jeff McNeil is not exchangeable with Dom Smith. Dom has really done nothing in his career. Any decent numbers Dom has put up are dubious for various reasons… and then he has 2021 to account for.
McNeil does have some accomplishments on his resume… some very good seasons, as well as decent flexibility in the field, which really increases his value. While I’m one of those that do not believe he will return to his lofty heights, there are many who are willing to risk something to find out.
Jeff seems like a fairly stubborn guy. He may have a too-inflated idea of his innate abilities. Adjustments are what he needs to get back to greater success at the plate… I just don’t see it happening to any great extent.
David Ortiz
Jose Bautista, thanks to a revised swing suggested by Vernon Wells.
It seems like most people are very down on McNeil, both here on Mets360 and on other sites as well. I’ve been one of the few advocates for him and I want to make a couple of points. According to Fangraphs, between 2018 and 2020, McNeil was 14th in MLB in wRC+ and 21st in OPS. In other words, he was basically a top 20 offensive player in MLB.
He clearly had a bad year in 2021. I am not going to pretend that I know the reasons for this, but there are a couple of things that could be pointed to. He was hurt part of the year, which may have affected him even after he came back, there was the change in hitting philosophy that is being reported after Davis was fired and maybe there were some effects from clubhouse issues. No one really knows whether those had an impact or not. There seem to be enough possible reasons to explain some of what went wrong. The Mets know better than we all do what these reasons are. Wobbit’s point above about not believing he will return to the level he was at is understandable and has merit. I just think that to give up on a player that’s been a proven outstanding offensive player based on one down year would be foolish. He may never get back to where he was, but I think that it’s reasonable to think that there is a chance he could get back there, and that even if he doesn’t but gets back part way, he is still better than some of the options that have been thrown around.
If he can bring back a key pitching piece in a trade, go for it, but I think we’d clearly be selling low on him at this point so in my mind it would have to be a really good deal.
McNeil for Sonny Grey…
In three of the four years of his career, McNeil has exceeded 130 OPS+, a OBP of .381 and a .311 BA. He was an all-star once. He is only 30 years old, first time arbitration eligible and he won’t be a free agent until 2025. He arbitration salary is projected to be only $2.8 m. He can play 2B, LF, RF and 3B. He should be the starting second baseman. Since the Mets don’t have a 4th outfielder he could fill in when needed and there are bench personnel that could play second base. McNeil’s versatility makes him more valuable especially if an injury occurred to a starting outfielder.
Sonny Gray would be a good acquisition .He is a solid #3 starter, durable and affordable at 1/$10 (with a 2023 option) but not at the expense of McNeil.