For the third week of January, there’s an awful lot of baseball talk around here. First there was the QBC on Saturday. Then, last night, there was a gathering called Pitch Talks at B.B. King’s Blues Club in mid-town Manhattan. The Pitch Talkers included – but were not limited to — FOX/MLB TV bowtie man Ken Rosenthal, Buster Olney of ESPN and NY baseball guys: Tyler Kepner and Sweeny Murti from the Yankee side and Adam Rubin and Matthew Cerrone carrying Mets’ colors. For the first time in awhile, it seems like the notable news was coming from the guys who cover Queens, rather than the Bronx. And even more interesting items came from the national guys than from the locals.
Both Rosenthal and Olney decried the state of the Mets’ finances last night – shocking in that such opinion didn’t come from a blogger or a scribe from one of the “big” websites. This is usually the bailiwick of the Howard Megdals of the world. Even Rubin is more at ease pointing out the Wilpons’ fiduciary shortcomings. For guys like Rosenthal or Olney, whose mandate is to report and possibly conjecture, the fact that they offered a genuine opinion was an eye-opener. From here, it was also most welcome. This is a signal that – as Rosenthal closed Mets section of the linked piece above – “enough is enough.” The Mets have a team on the rise, or so they would have us believe. The time has come for the team to open the coffers and support all the young talent bubbling beneath the surface – even if that means surrendering some of that talent in the process.
By now, we’ve all heard about the scotched three-way deal among the Mets, The Washington Nationals and the Tampa Rays that would have sent Ben Zobrist and Yunel Escobar to the Capital, Ian Desmond to Flushing and Noah Syndergaard-plus to the Gulf. Met GM Sandy Alderson balked at the price to the Mets, and rightly so from general consensus. Zobrist and Escobar went out to Oakland instead. Having Desmond here – while most welcome in terms of MLB talent on the roster – would have cost far too much in terms talent and money turned over, what with Desmond being in the “walk” year of his deal and all. Ah, but not so fast: just before last night’s festivities commenced, the Nationals swung a deal to bring Escobar to Washington after all. So does this put Desmond back in play for the Mets? Tyler Clippard went packing to snag Escobar, so could the Mets throw some non-Syndergaard power arms to the Washington bullpen? Could Daniel Murphy entice the Nats? There has been some huffing and posturing today – from both sides – that such a thought is borderline preposterous. Washington GM Mike Rizzo says that Escobar will be the Nats’ second baseman and Desmond is staying put. Alderson has not demurred. All of which leads your intrepid columnist to think that a deal is, indeed, brewing and that Desmond will be a Met before the weekend is over. Stranger things have happened.
In any case, it’s nice to know that Met fans aren’t the only ones with an eye on the Wilponian till.
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Murphy and Montero for Desmond as long as he signs an extension…period
Rule question: Supposing that the Mets trade for Desmond, but don’t extend him, and let him walk. I’ve heard it suggested that the Mets would then receive a draft pick, provided they offered the one-year, $15.3 million deal.
However, I seem to recall various caveats, most importantly that the free agent in question would have to be with the parent team an undisclosed amount of time, to keep the wheeling and dealing “funny business” to a minimum.
Anybody got info on that? I’ve got the conjecture covered, it’s the hard facts that elude me. I might be wrong.
BTW, Charlie, another strong piece.
Lastly, despite my criticisms of Alderson’s reign, I should add that I really do think being a GM is not an easy task. I don’t envy Alderson having to make these tough decisions. What if the Nats ask for Familia? Or Mejia? Or Plawecki? Trading Murphy is easy, he’s gone in a year anyway. But when it comes to being a real GM, and earning millions annually, that’s the job: you have to step up and do something, take calculated risks, move to improve the team. It’s time to take a shot. That said: If I’m putting together a package, I’d give Colorado one last call, put Syndergaard and Montero on the table, say we’ve got 24 hours, and start the bargaining.
QO can be given to a player if they has been on the roster the entire season.
Basically, you can get a pick for offseason trades, no pick for deadline deals.
Almost zero chance the Mets trade with the Nationals directly. When the Mets were talking about Desmond in the 3 way trade, they were doing so with the Rays and not the Nats
You guys realize that Tulo is injured goods, right?
I really like Tulo, and I wouldn’t trade for him. I wrote last month: Who do you think is better, Josh Donaldson in arbitration or Tulowitzski? For Donaldson the A’s got a package equal to Cecchini, Leathersich, Yona, and Plawkowski or Flores. Why is Tulo worth more? You realize that Donaldson is arguably top five right now, right?
The A’s got much better players than your comps. Barreto, Graveman, Nolin are all on nearly all top 10 list for the A’s, with Barreto likely as the A’s #1 prospect since they traded away Daniel Robertson.
Barreto ~ Amed Rosaio
Graveman ~ Tapia/Ynoa? don’t know much of the low minors pitchers
Nolin ~ Matz
Lawrie ~ Duda (Not a good comp, but i figured closest in value since same years of control left)
I looked at the grades at MLB.com and that’s how players were graded. I don’t know how the Blue Jays #1 matched up with the Mets, but I didn’t see Matz or Thor grades given to those guys. Yes, Barreto can be Rosario, but MLB has Cecchini with the same grade. I’m just going by what the “experts” say.
Rosario also has the same grade according to MLB.com and is closer in age and league. Clearly he’s the obvious better comp….
Further, for all the great players traded – Upton, Kemp, Myers – not a single top prospect was traded. You never hear Bundy, Bradley, or Tallion being available, but Met fans are willing to give away Thor? Why? This isn’t aimed towards you James, but in general Met fans are ready to just give up our best prospects for what? Tulo is damaged goods that is getting older and expensive. I wrote earlier what the Mets equivalent is of the prospects the A’s got, based on MLB.com grading. Even if the package wouldn’t be exact, you get the idea.
Why do the Rockies deserve so much more for a chronically injured SS that is getting $118 over a healthy and productive 3B that will get about $85MM over the same time frame? Yes, Tulo is a SS but he’s always hurt; thus the comparable values. Ages are similar: Tulo is 30, Donaldson is 29. Tulo’s numbers are awesome at home and but mediocre on the road.
Troy Tulowitzki – 30 years old – stats from the last three years:
Home: 486 ab, 107 runs, 31 HR, 92 RBI, .354/.437/.609
Away: 456 ab, 69 runs, 23 HR, 69 RBI, .276/.359/.489
Due $118MM for the next six years.
Josh Donaldson – 29 years old – stats from the last three years:
Home: 710 abs, 88 runs, 27 HR, 104 RBI, .259/.332/.413
Away: 751 ab, 128 runs, 35 HR, 120 RBI, .281/.365/.478
“Why do the Rockies deserve so much more for a chronically injured SS that is getting $118 over a healthy and productive 3B that will get about $85MM over the same time frame?”
Because you can’t fit Wright and Donaldson in the same Mets lineup, but you can do with Wright and Tulo.
Most of your argument is based on the fact that you think the A’s got a crap haul for Donaldson, when in reality they got 3 guys who are all now on the A’s top 10 prospect list, plus a young major league hitter, who is also a former top prospect.
Name, I am comparing two players. Just because the Mets need a SS, doesn’t make Tulo worth more than he is worth. You seem to be getting upset over this. And, while they may be on the A’s top ten list, so what? Beane gutted the system last year trying to make the playoffs and now has to replenish. If you don’t believe my words, look up the players he got and their grading.
The whole basis of your “rant” assumes that the Rockies are asking for at least what the A’s got (in terms of prospects)
We dont know what the Rockies are asking, but i highly doubt it’s 3 top prospects plus an established MLB piece.
If you want my opinion, i’d give up Gee, Syndergaard, a hitting prospect (not Herrera), plus a low minors lottery pick (think Beccerra-like) in exchange for Tulo plus 2 mil annually.
Just one note Gus. The Coliseum is not exactly considered a hitters park so wouldn’t you expect Donaldson’s numbers to be higher on the road? And if the Rockies ate 3 million per year would that make it more reasonable in your estimation? I know I would do it. The Mets are paying Granderson 15 million to hit .229 and hit 20-25 homeruns
But Pete, was Granderson worth that contract? Do two wrongs make a right?
I’m not surprised by the results, but just saying Tulo with half his games at Citifield won’t be the player he is with half the games at Coors Field. The numbers speak for themselves.
As cavernous as Citifield is, what if Donaldson’s home splits become Tulo’s home splits? Then what? I don’t expect him to, but…
My whole argument people is if you pay a king’s ransom for Tulo, what will you get for six years? Will you get more than about 115 games per year average (some years more, probably some less)? Are you happy with that?
It’s about time! The poor Wilpons were caught with their pants down when Madoff got arrested for running a Ponzi scheme. Who’s to blame? I thought Fred and his partners were shrew businessmen with all of their real estate dealings. So it just happens that their judgement was misguided by their greed when it came to the stock market? I think not. Jeff Loria is persona non grata in Miami. He’s vilified by the national press. At least he has 2 World Series championships to show for since 2000. The Wilpons are characterized as being duped by a close family friend so we have to show them sympathy for their error in judgement. Give me a break! If they weren’t so close to Bud they would of been gone by now. It’s about time the national press covered the wheeling and dealing of Fred’s inner circle and put them under the same scrutiny as Loria
why does everyone here want to let Murphy go???…….All right, make the trade, but do it without losing Murphy!!!!! There are other pieces that can be traded without having to give up Murphy!!!!
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Because the Mets have viable options at second base. They are not going to give Murphy an extension with Herrera a better defensive option under team control for 6 years Are the Mets going to give Murphy a qualifying offer? Expect Murphy to sign elsewhere as a FA. In order to get something of quality you have to do the same. You get Desmond for 1 year and give the Nat’s a package that is going to be comparable. And so long as Thor is not included in any package SA might just pull the trigger on that deal
I agree with what JP said above — this and the QBC pieces were both good reads.
Thank you. It’s always nice to have one’s work recognized.
Gus I believe if Tulo is the link that brings the Mets to not only the playoffs but a World Series you do the trade. Alderson is still overpaying for FA’s to come here. Four years for Granderson. Two years for Colon. And Two years for Cuddyer! I hope you enjoy watching sink or swim Grandy. The Mets have him and his unfriendly contract for 3 more years. I would of preferred SA doing a trade for Tulo rather than signing Cuddyer. But I still believe Tulo even at 120 games per is worth the risk..
Ok, just my opinion…
Gus if Tulo brings the Mets a World Series is his 100 million dollar contract worth it?
Pete, I want to say yes because it would be great. I cut my midterms in college to go to the parade. But, I just feel that they are way overspending and I just know that guy will be hurt all the time. I’d rather take my chances with what we have and hope they all have good years like the Royals did.
Overspending to get Tulo, but in reality the guys around him will make up the slack for his yearly vacations. See Nomar Garciaparra and Stephen Drew: always hurt. I can’t help but see Tulowitzsky in the same light.
The Commissioner’s office hasn’t filed any grievance against our ownership, so they aren’t going to turn around and do it now. All this does is bring our shame to the national stage, and no amount of bowtie condemnation is going to change that.
Patrick i’m not ashamed of the Mets. I’m embarrassed with our ownership. It’s not what you know but who you know that matters (Which is ironic considering the Madoff fiasco). Hopefully the lawsuit filed by the pregnant former senior vice president will continue to keep the pressure on the Jeff n Fred show.
I meant shame for the organization. I love the players.
I agree Patrick! I don’t know how New Yorkers can see fred and jeff as responsible owners. Truly unworthy of being owners of any team in any sport
Saw Rosenthal on MLBNetwork saying that Murphy and an MLB ready prospect for Desmond and a low level prospect could have the makings of a trade, although that was his opinion. I think the Mets have a chance to get Desmond, and if they had to give up Murphy and Montero in order to get him, I would definitely go through with that deal. Should be an interesting January and February.
Unfortunately Gus hope doesn’t always play out the way we want it to. I hope the Wilpons sell the team. But I know that’s wishful thinking. Between Colon and Cuddyer Alderson has almost 20 million dollars invested for 2015 in these two players. Here’s hoping Colon doesn’t implode every 5th or 6th start and Cuddyer doesn’t become to accustomed on the DL. By the way Cuddyer at 36 (in March) and coming off playing an average of 93 games in 3 years at hitter friendly Coors Field would you consider that being a good investment? Or would you have preferred a different option?
I barely want Granderson, and hated CY. I wanted MDD/Campbell platoon last year and this year want the same or Puello or even Mayberry platoon. I don’t see how thirty starts a year for Campbell in the outfield will be that bad. I thought he held his own out there, but give the kid some practice.
I want to see our kids and give them a chance. Deep down, I know this is cruel, but I wouldn’t mind if Cuddyer takes a couple of months vacation so I can see what the outfield looks like with MDD or Kirk, Lagares, and Granderson. Willing to bet we like it.
While I too wish no ill will on any human being, Cuddyer at 36 is not the answer to the Met woes. It’s like plugging a leak in a dike with a q-tip. The water level continues to go up and eventually will spill over. how is that Alderson the guru of preaching patience goes out on 2 consecutive FA seasons and delivers to the fan base a knee jerk reaction? If Cuddyer’s signing is a now win move then what does that say about Alderson? Another “safe” move by our intrepid GM on the ghost ship Metantic with Sandy at the helm? Too many questionable FA signings by Alderson for the Mets to be serious contenders for the division let alone a wild card. Finally it would behoove Alderson to hire a manager who is willing to play the kids so can know whether or not they are capable to succeed at the major league level.
pete, let’s go grab a beer and keep this conversation going.
Chris don’t get me started please! Can we wait for the season opener and buy a nice warm flat Bud for 9 bucks at Citifield?