Wednesday catch-all thread (6/20/18)

Mets all-time leaderboard, uh, let’s call it trailerboard, instead. Minimum 30 IP – category: ERA

10 – Oliver Perez (2009) 6.82 ERA in 66 IP
9 — Brent Strom (1972) 6.82 ERA in 30.1 IP
8 — Jeremy Griffiths (2003) 7.02 ERA in 41 IP
7 — Ryota Igarashi (2010) 7.12 ERA in 30.1 IP
6 — Vinegar Bend Mizell (1962) 7.34 ERA in 38 IP
5 — Pedro Astacio (2003) 7.36 ERA in 36.2 IP
4 — Rich Rodriguez (2000) 7.78 ERA in 37 IP
3 — Eric Hillman (1994) 7.79 ERA in 34.2 IP
2 — Chris Flexen (2017) 7.88 ERA in 48 IP
1 — Jason Vargas (2018) 8.60 ERA in 37.2 IP

Flexen was a rookie called up after seven starts above A-ball. Vargas is a veteran with 1,439 IP in the majors who’s on a 2/$16 contract. Anyone who was lampooning Flexen last year who isn’t crucifying Vargas right now isn’t to be trusted. If Noah Syndergaard isn’t ready to return to the rotation in five days, call up Corey Oswalt and have him replace Vargas as a starter.

26 comments for “Wednesday catch-all thread (6/20/18)

  1. Michael
    June 20, 2018 at 9:25 am

    If they intended to fix Harvey by working out of the BP, they can certainly try and fix Vargas there.

  2. June 20, 2018 at 9:26 am

    Last year Vargas’ fastball by pitch value was -21 and yet he’s throwing it more than ever this year, I don’t get it at all.

  3. TexasGusCC
    June 20, 2018 at 9:54 am

    With regard to the podcast, I enjoyed listening to opinions on the farm and I agree that the Mets don’t need Realmuto. They need to get a GM in here that won’t be enamored with yesteryear and doesn’t believe that homeruns, walks and strikeouts are really the only true outcomes. Defense and speed is a rarity in this pathetic system, as well as players that can take an outside pitch to the opposite field.

    I’m surprised neither of you mentioned Desmond Lindsey as the most disappointing prospect so far this year. What is the story with this kid? He has had one multi-hit game this month.

    Lastly, while you scraped the topic of releasing AGone, I believe the best Mets team has Smith in the outfield and Flores the full-time first baseman. For whatever reason, Bruce isn’t really better than Smith defensively and Smith is probably a better hitter. Then, Flores is the Mets best right handed hitter and one of the few players on this team that can regularly be a run producer due to his consistent contact and ability to hit line-to-line. Have y’all noticed that teams do not shift against Flores? How many Mets can still use the whole field? The most intelligent and diverse hitters in the Mets right now are Nimmo, Conforto, Mesoraco and Flores. Cabrera is hurt, so he’s in limbo, but Smith’s ability to hit the other way with authority has him on the cusp of this list. Add Frazier and Rosario and this is the best Mets lineup, although The Snob will refuse to acknowledge it.
    I had this ready for the Monday catch-all, so the Bruce DL trip is not mentioned. In fact, I see better at-bats from Bautista than I see from Bruce, and maybe even Smith. How can the equipment manager not have a broken-in glove to give Smith? How sad is that?

    • June 20, 2018 at 11:01 am

      Smith is hitting a ton of grounders he’s been unimpressive to me

  4. Chris F
    June 20, 2018 at 11:08 am

    Gus, no. Flores needs to be traded to any team foolish enough to take him. The more he plays the uglier it gets. He has no value at all with a career bWAR of 0.3 in more than 500 games. Smith is completely incapable of being an outfielder, even worse than Duda. He’s the guy at 1B, unless Alonso is, and Flores is the 25th player or wearing a different uniform (can only hope).

    I agree getting rid of the FO is step 1 to fixing this team in the absence of the Wilpon’s letting go (will never happen with the real estate prospects around Willets Point, so we need to get over that).

    • TexasGusCC
      June 20, 2018 at 11:56 am

      Chris, I would think Flores would have a good deal of appeal. He can play first or second, and can stand at third or short. He’s not a great fielder, but there are many butchers out there. As a middle infielder, he can get you a .275ish average with 25+ hr and 95-100 rbi. That has value. You may see him as a slow scrub, but he’s better than your starting second baseman; hurt or not, the overall results speak so I don’t care. Also, he is now just starting to go into his prime years.

      For the period of 2016-2018 despite uneven playing time and a busted nose and a busted foot, Flores has a 109 RC+. Let’s look at other similar players:

      Jake Lamb, Miguel Sano, Starling Marte, Zack Cosart, Jed Goyrko, Ryon Healy are all 110 RC+.

      Cesar Hernandez, Derek Dietrich, Joe Mauer, Joey Gallo, Kyle Schwarber, CJ Cron, Oduble Herrera, Neil walker, Xander Bogaerts, Hanley Ramirez, Corey Dickerson, Yulieski Gurriel all at 109 RC+.

      All of the above have more, mostly much more, plate appearance for Flores (840) except for one: Kyle Schwarber, and even his are usually in a row.

      DJ LeMahieu, Travis Shaw, Trey Mancini, Seth Smith, Jed Lowrie, Yonder Alonso, Kurt Suzuki are all at 108 RC+.

      Some here are outfielders that are on Flores’ level, and they play an easier position. Just about every player here is an everyday player, and so they have the advantage of consistent playing time to keep sharp. While some may be better defensively, we don’t know if Flores can play second base everyday because the people who wouldn’t give Nimmo a chance, wanted to send Conforto down just about every year, keep signing players like Jay Bruce and his ilk, decide Flores can’t play second base! And it is proven, those people are M O R O N S!!

      PS: If you think Smith can’t play the outfield because all he did yesterday was pick up basehits even though I saw him catch fly balls the other other day and even Keith Hernandez said he moved smooth and I felt the same, do you really think Bruce (who has stood out there for years) is really better?

      • Pete In Iowa
        June 20, 2018 at 2:01 pm

        “Not a great fielder…” Hate to disagree Gus, but Flores isn’t a bad fielder either….. He is an absolutely horrible fielder with no baseball instincts at all. Almost every single one of his throws from third this year have been atrocious. At first base, the other night on the line drive he caught (which looked to surprise him) when the ump called the guy out for being out of the baseline, all he had to do was roll over one turn and touch the bag, rather than flailing around trying to tag the guy — no baseball sense. Later in that game he very nearly threw away a three foot underhand flip to deGrom covering the bag. Last night on the double play ball that Rosario threw away, Flores’ throw to second was a lollipop floater, making Rosario having to rush a throw which had to have been made (because of the floater) with lots of mustard on it and the runner on top of him.
        “25+ HR and 95-100 RBI”??? Maybe in a video game, not in real MLB life. He must be dealt to an AL team as a RH designated hitter. If anyone would have him…

        • TexasGusCC
          June 20, 2018 at 2:59 pm

          I’m not going to argue with the entire world, but supposedly in the minors second base was his best position. Yesterday was a 3-6-3 which Hernandez marveled at, and Her Andes pointed out how hard it is to throw over the runner on target. On the bunt, Rosario had it in time and if Cabrera would have reacted just a little bit it would have been ok. The throw was about three feet wide of the bag. With a stretch and a reach it’s a double play. Wasn’t it Vargas that fielded that?

          On the line drive on Monday, he is moving off the line after holding the runner, he reaches back to catch ball in one motion. As he is diving in the air to get back towards the direction of the batted ball, too far from the base, he catches it reaches for the runner because he was closer to the runner than the base. What the heck am I missing that the rest of the world sees?

          • Chris F
            June 20, 2018 at 3:28 pm

            Gus, go to bbref and compare dj lemahieu and Flores since 2014. If you see *anything* even remotely similar between him and Flores run to the hospital or call an ambulance. True, both are males and play baseball. The similarity ends there.

            Flores is a loveable hack, but if you see through the loveable, all that’s left is a hack.

            • TexasGusCC
              June 20, 2018 at 6:41 pm

              Chris, go the Fangraphs and put in 2016-2018, minimum 700 PA’s. If you see different than what I wrote, let me know to throw out my tablet because it doesn’t work.

    • TexasGusCC
      June 21, 2018 at 12:58 am

      Wilmer Flores WAR:

      Fangraphs 4.9
      Baseball Reference 5.4

    June 20, 2018 at 11:52 am

    Im trying to figure out how I remember Vinegar Bend Mizell but have no recollection of Igarashi. Doesn’t seem like I missed much.

    From the guy who liked the Vargas signing!

    • June 20, 2018 at 12:12 pm

      Well, the guy from 1962 made the leap into long term memory and the guy from this century didn’t. Besides, how can you not remember a guy named Vinegar Bend?

      • MattyMets
        June 21, 2018 at 8:08 am

        Vinegar Bend Mizell (nickname from growing up in Mississippi) was actually a solid pitcher for the Cardinals earlier in his career but was washed up by 1962. He’s one of those hasbeens the Mets signed to fill out their expansion team roster.

        MLB just doesn’t have nicknames like it used to. I can think of a few choice ones for Hansel Robles, but not sure Topps would feel comfortable using them on their trading cards.

        • IDRAFT
          June 21, 2018 at 9:27 am

          Every time Sandy signs another Gonzales or Bautista it reminds me of the 1962 Mets, except that GM was building a farm system.

        • IDRAFT
          June 21, 2018 at 9:29 am

          I don’t think “Fat Jack Fisher” would go over in these sensitive times.

        • TexasGusCC
          June 21, 2018 at 11:11 am

          Matt, how about “HomeRun” as his nickname? Very fitting.

          It was about a month ago after he served up another one that Josh Lewin said in disgust that he has the appropriate initials. That line alone was worth suffering through another misery.

          Remember a cornerback on the Giants, Elvis Patterson, that had the nickname “Toast”?

  6. Mike Walczak
    June 20, 2018 at 11:59 am

    Vargas is a mess. What a waste of money. It’s like buying a 16 year old car and expecting it to work well.

    Why is Reyes still on the team. Time to give Cecchini and McNeill a shot. Rather have the kids developing rather than having players waiting on line to be put out to the pasture.

    • Eraff
      June 21, 2018 at 7:07 pm

      “It’s like buying a 16 year old car and expecting it to work well.”………….Ha!

  7. Pete In Iowa
    June 20, 2018 at 2:05 pm

    If the Mets don’t DFA Vargas and Robles today, they are out of their minds. Neither has what it takes to be an MLB pitcher, for whatever reasons.
    Peterson certainly looks to be a more than adequate replacement for Robles and anyone who thinks Lugo wouldn’t be a huge upgrade over Vargas needs to have their head examined.
    Sure, they could try to trade them and get some minor league fillers in return, but the DFA route might send a clear message to the sleeping, lumbering vets on the roster as well.

  8. Eraff
    June 20, 2018 at 5:49 pm

    Wow!!!—the Catch-All is The New Black!!!!!!!…now with 50% More Catch-all


  9. TexasGusCC
    June 21, 2018 at 11:08 am

    A fantastic article on Fangraphs yesterday with Buck Showalter talking about changes in baseball. Not only is it a must read, there should be a test at the end.

    An except from the latter part of the article, and this after he explains the importance of analytics:

    “There’s some strong talk about eliminating shifts, too, trying to make the value of a ground ball more… trying to dictate more action on the field, as opposed to strikeouts and home runs. Defense is still important. I actually think it’s magnified more in the big leagues now than it’s ever been. The good teams playing late into the season are good defensive clubs, with no exceptions. When the ball is put in play, you better catch that sonuvabitch. If the ball is put on the ground with a man on first, you better turn two. Outs are big. Everybody’s got power.

    “The players up here are good. I think we have the biggest chasm ever between the minor leagues and the big leagues. It’s a huge chasm, and the ability to evaluate… and sometimes guys can be hitting .250 down there and do better up here. Same with pitchers. The ability to evaluate what plays up here is important in an organization.

    “Let’s face it. Guys come out of college football and they go right to the NFL and are all-pro. They come out of high school and play in the NBA. They come out of Stanford and are on the Ryder Cup in golf. Baseball? Doesn’t happen. There’s such an apprenticeship here. Guys are coming to the big leagues so fast that the importance of being able to teach at the major-league level is higher than it’s ever been. You can’t assume anything anymore. Nothing.”

    • June 21, 2018 at 3:21 pm

      “Outs are big.” Couldn’t agree more – can’t give them away on defense or offense. I can live with guys like 2016 Cabrera, who don’t have much range but turn every ball they get to into an out. That’s why Flores kills me. Too many times the ball is hit within a step or two of him and he can’t make the play that needs to be made.

  10. Eraff
    June 21, 2018 at 7:10 pm

    Regarding Wilmer—he’s a nice kid, but he’s an awful defensive player. He needs to hit like a Gorilla to play, and he would do 25-90 with 650 ab’s—on a 90 loss team

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